Pagina 3 van 3

Geplaatst: 13 mar 2003, 12:55
door De waarheidsvriend
Robert,
Sorry voor mijn late reactie, maar ik had andere bezigheden.

Teneerste bedankt voor de vriendelijke toonzetting, dat discusseerd toch op een fijnere manier. Wat dat betrefd maak ik trouwens vaak fouten.

Je wilt dat ik uit de bijbel citeerde. De tekst die ik aanhaalde kwam van een homepage. De tekst is doordrengd met het Woord van God. Het artikel is afkomstig van de website van de Free Presbyterian Church. Niet alleen over de zondag staat er een artikel, in de magazines is veel waardevolle tekst te vinden. Voor iedereen aan te bevelen! link: http://www.fpchurch.org.uk/

Wegens de lengte zal ik het niet plaatsen op dit forum. Je moet het artikel dus lezen op de site.

Geplaatst: 13 mar 2003, 15:41
door Robert
Ik reageer in het engels omdat een mix van Nederlandse antwoorden op engelse zinnen m.i. verwarrend werkt.
It is a remarkable fact that the Fourth Commandment is one for which we have God's own example. We read that He "rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made" (Genesis 2:2,3). God was thus setting apart the seventh day in every week as a day for man to rest from his ordinary toil
The conclusion made by the author that God setted apart the seventh day for man to rest is wrong.
The seventh day has been setted apart by The Lord because it was the day He rested Himself from His work.

God didn't rest because it was the 7th day, but he rested because His work was done! And to celebrate this fact he sanctified this day!
But there is no reason to believe that anyone has rested on the 7th day before the mount Sinaï. (more about this later in this text)
when God gave the Ten Commandments to Israel the Fourth Commandment was put in the form of a reminder, not as something completely new: "Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy . . "

(...)

even before the Ten Commandments were given, God made clear to Israel that Sabbath-breaking was a sin. When manna was first given for food to Israel, just after they crossed the Red Sea, they were told, "Six days shall ye gather it, but on the seventh day, which is the Sabbath, in it there shall be none"
When the manna was fortold to the jews, it's true that the first signs of the Sabbathday were given. But not the Sabbathcommandment itself was given to them. All they were told is that they should gather the food for the 7th on the 6th day, and they should not try to gather food on the 7th day at all. Nothing more than that. We can not state that God gave the 4th commandment on this occasion already.

There's even biblical evidence for this,
read Nehamia 9:13-14

"Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments: And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath"

This passage reads clearly that the 4th commandment was made known on the Sinaï.
It's very understandable that God already incorporated his soon to be given 4th commandment when giving the manna.

Levitucs 20 even teaches us that this commandment was given to the children of ISrael:

"These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai. "

I cannot see how the author of the quoted article can claim that the commandments are not only for the children of Israel while the Bible doesn't claim such a thing anywhere. It even strongly states that it was given to the children of Israel.
Does Paul not say, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days; which are a shadow of things to come" (Colossians 2:16,17)?
Of course he does - and he speaks in a similar vein in other places also - but the question is, what does he mean in such passages by days and, in particular, by Sabbath days?
The answer was that first-generation Christians were free to keep holy the seventh day of the week in addition to the first day, but no one had any right to judge those who did not keep the seventh day as well as the first day.
A very weak answer,
for sure since, while it explains that the 1st day should be celebrated as the ressurectionday, it doesn't explain why the 1th day should be kept as a sabbathday.

For sure compared with the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

So how can anyone claim that the 4th commandment of the law has changed in more than a tittle or a jot, but with a complete word, while Jesus is that clear about that?

We can conclude that there neither is any evidence that the 1st day of the week was kept as a sabbathday, additional to a day of meeting and celebrating, nor can we conclude that we are still bound to keep the 7th day like commanded in the 4th commandment.
God had changed the particular day of the week which was to be kept holy, but the Sabbath institution remained absolutely unchanged
which is a contradictimus interminus.
"God has changed the commandment while it remained unchanged"

Besides that there is no biblical evidence for this. The author concludes from a passage which denies the importance of the sabbathday (Colossians) that it is important.

He concludes from a Bible which denies any changes in the commandments (Matthew 5) that it changes.

And eventhough there is no biblical phrase that tells us, he concludes that the 7th day has passed over to the 1th day.
There can be no doubt that the first day of the week was the day set apart in the early New Testament Church for the worship of God. It was "upon the first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread" in Troas
It's true that the first day is the day on which christians have gathered in all ages.
To celebrate the ressurection of their Lord!

It's also very known that these meetings, for sure in the early centuries, happened prior to and after work.

It's rather strange that the author even thinks that, according to the earlier quoted words of Paul, some christians kept two days as a sabbathday, like the 1th day with the christians, and the 7th day in the jewish tradition.

But, besides that, I agree with the author that the 1th day is the day of celebrating Jesus ressurection indeed.
How can we expect to feel at home in heaven unless in this life we can enjoy a Sabbath which is consecrated to the worship of God?
There is no biblical evidence that supports this thought. It's made up.
Surely a well-kept Sabbath is the closest we can get to heaven in this world.
I think there's more to have in this world,
namely 7 days of spirital mariage with God! Not just one.

And not only paying attention to God while you rest, but sharing and giving your life alltogether to God! Including your work.

Geplaatst: 13 mar 2003, 15:44
door Robert
But how were believers to treat the seventh day of the week after God instituted the Christian Sabbath - or the Lord's Day, as John calls it in Revelation 1:10
This is a very oftenly made confusion about revelations 1:10.
It actually reads that John was on the youngest day in the Spirit.

Or: The Spirit gave John a vision about youngest day, or "The Lord's Day".

It's not the sunday that's been called "The Lord's Day", it's the day we all look forward to which is called like that by John.

Geplaatst: 13 mar 2003, 15:47
door Breekijzertje
Oorspronkelijk gepost door Robert
Ik reageer in het engels omdat een mix van Nederlandse antwoorden op engelse zinnen m.i. verwarrend werkt.
Je bedoelt eigenlijk te zeggen dat je geen nederlandse documentatie hebt kunnen vinden en copieëren van het http://www.......:$


Een 'breekje' van Breekijzertje

Geplaatst: 13 mar 2003, 22:14
door Robert
Uh, nee breek. anders hadden er niet zoveel spelfouten in gestaan ;)