I'm really wondering about whether God still elects or not. I came to think about this by talking to people that think that God doesn't elect, but that Jesus died for everyone. To bring mine and their opinion together I started to think about: what if God still elects? Since He's an eternal and everlasting God, because like the Bible says: "one day is like a thousand, and thousand as one day.." it could be that He still elects because He elects in eternity which is a totally different dimension than what we call time here.

(for the record, this is not really the way I think it is, but just wondering if this could be true)

The Bible says He elected (past tense) from eternity... Not sure how the tense is in the original language though...

Regarding the differences between time and eternity, that is not for our puny brain to understand, as really we have no concept of eternity. That really does belong to the hidden things of God.

I know..but could it be that God says it like this (past tense) in the Bible to make it understandable for men? He speaks like He is in time, but in fact He isn't.
Same as: You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Because there is no water under the earth...but because people thought it to be that way, God says it like this to make it understandable for them.

We confess that God never changes. So if God once elected, He still elects. Today He still elects the same people He elected long before this earth was formed.

When we 'choose' to love someone, do we choose once, or do we daily renew that choice be continuing to love?

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. (Jer.31:3)

memento schreef:We confess that God never changes. So if God once elected, He still elects. Today He still elects the same people He elected long before this earth was formed.

When we 'choose' to love someone, do we choose once, or do we daily renew that choice be continuing to love?

no but I could love someone and get to love someone else too...like I loved my family my whole life but all of a sudden I fall in love with this beautiful girl. And then one of my friends starts to share really intimate stuff, which makes me love my friend a lot more than I did before...or I get a new friend somehow...so if this would be the argument, I would say the opposite you are saying with the same argument.

And why would God still have to elect when He's not gonna change who he elected from the beginning...Because there would be no reason to do that. So that argument again could be easily used in the opposite way. God never changes, so if God elected, He still elects..

And like I asked before: when God says 'He elected long before the world was even formed', could it be He puts it like this to make His creatures understand what He's talking about? Coz if God would have put it the way it really is, men may not even have understood what He meant. Especially the people in those days because they didn't have a Calvin or whoever to think about these things and make things clear how people should read the Bible or how to think about 'problems' like election...

helma schreef:The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. (Jer.31:3)

I really believe that it's God that draws people, so I believe God elects...The question is: does He still elect. And since He never changes, He elected once so He still elects.

The everlasting love here may be explained like the love God shows for everyone. And because He loves us he draws us (like when going to church, when reading the Bible, when praying and so on and so on..)

Because if one would really be objective and read the verse: "For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (I know this is kinda what we discussed in the other topic) but doesn't Jesus Himself tell us here how God thought about the world: He LOVED it SO much, that He didn't let us down BUT sent His only begotten Son (which makes it the ultimate love, because who would sacrifice his or her own son for people that have done things to you, you don't like). I know there's more to it, coz one has to believe to be really saved (last line) but still, in the beginning God speaks of a general non-electing love in my opinion.

Canuck BC schreef:

memento schreef:We confess that God never changes. So if God once elected, He still elects. Today He still elects the same people He elected long before this earth was formed.

When we 'choose' to love someone, do we choose once, or do we daily renew that choice be continuing to love?

no but I could love someone and get to love someone else too...like I loved my family my whole life but all of a sudden I fall in love with this beautiful girl. And then one of my friends starts to share really intimate stuff, which makes me love my friend a lot more than I did before...or I get a new friend somehow...so if this would be the argument, I would say the opposite you are saying with the same argument.

I like the examples you give here, because they clarify a lot. How is it that you came to love someone else? Because you didn't know them before, because you came to know them better, or because they somehow changed their attitude towards you. The relationship between God and men is totally different: He knows us from eternity, and His election is not because of anything in us, it's only because of Himself.