Instrumental Music in the Public Worship of the Church
John L. Girardeau
http://www.fpcr.org/girardeau/Girardeau ... 0Music.htm

Robert L. Dabney - Dr. Girardeau's Instrumental Music in Public Worship.
http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/dabney/organs.htm

Instrumental Music in Public Worship: The Views of John Calvin
http://www.piney.com/MuJohnCalvin.html

What did early Christians believe about- (Before 300 AD) Using instrumental music in worship???
http://www.bible.ca/H-music.htm

Here are some free-acapella psalm singing, listen:
http://www.shallwesingasongforyou.co.uk/?p=145

Personal iam longing so much for this kind of worship, without any instruments at all !!!

mayflower schreef:Personal iam longing so much for this kind of worship, without any instruments at all !!!

Why?

rekcor schreef:

mayflower schreef:Personal iam longing so much for this kind of worship, without any instruments at all !!!

Why?

Because i believe it scriptual and i hold to the regulative princple of Worship.

Iam baptist, and iam a part of local evangelical church, which not holding to the regulative principle. So even though iam holding towards the RP, it will not keep me away from a local body which does not hold to it

A very good modern book written on this subject is OLD LIGHT ON NEW WORSHIP- Musical Instruments and the Worship of God,
A Theological, Historical and Psychological Study by John Price
http://www.solid-ground-books.com/searc ... john+price

John price's books is like a modern version of John L. Girardeau book, the only differenes is that John price is a Baptist, while Girardeau was a presbyterian.

For more audio acapella psalm singing see: The Scottish Metrical Psalms by the free church of Scotland
http://www.psalms.4t.com/page2.html

More information:

http://www.foracappella.org/

http://www.foracappella.org/acappellaarticles/index.php

http://www.foracappella.org/sermons/Why ... uments.pdf

http://www.foracappella.org/sermons/WOR ... %20GOD.pdf

http://www.foracappella.org/sermons/Wha ... thians.pdf

mayflower schreef: Because i believe it scriptual and i hold to the regulative princple of Worship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulative ... of_worship

Never heard of this viewpoint, interesting!

My first impression is that it is a bit Old Testament way of thinking. The 'RP-ians' at the same time reject musical instruments because the OT is fullfilled in the New Testament, which seems like a bit of a contradiction.

Wikipedia schreef:The substance of the doctrine regarding worship is that only those elements that are instituted or appointed by command or example in the Bible are permissible in worship, or in other words, that God <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God> institutes in the Scriptures everything he requires for worship in the Church <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church> and that everything else is prohibited.

Mayflower schreef:For more audio acapella psalm singing see: The Scottish Metrical Psalms by the free church of Scotland
<http://www.psalms.4t.com/page2.html>

How can you be longing to this kind of singing, using hymn tunes written in 18th/19e century, and sung in harmony? Where did the Lord command us to sing 19th century hymn tunes in harmony?
I'm afraid I'll never understand the regulative principle... :roll:

Ps. 33: 1 Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.

But not in public worship? :roll:

Hendrikus schreef:Ps. 33: 1 Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.

But not in public worship? :roll:

If you are sincerly interessed, you read and listen to:

http://reformedonline.com/view/reformedonline/music.htm

link 2 (ingekort vanwege leesbaarheid)

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.a ... 7180510404

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.a ... 2505132724

link 5 (ingekort vanwege leesbaarheid)

Hey Mayflower,

The RPW in its classic expression says:

if it is not commanded it is forbidden.

That is purported to be a universal trans-covenantal rule that binds all religious worship across the span of redemptive history.

Proving that from Scripture, tho, is not going to be easy (apart from the fact that it also invokes a negative inference fallacy).

Take care,
David

mayflower schreef:

Hendrikus schreef:Ps. 33: 1 Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.

But not in public worship? :roll:

If you are sincerly interessed, you read and listen to:
(...)

That's no way of discussing things on a forum (imho). If you want to discuss the RP, you have to come up with those arguments yourself.

Hendrikus schreef:Ps. 33: 1 Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.

But not in public worship? :roll:

The only reason for rejecting musical instruments is the lack of skillfull musicians. They often do make a loud noise, though. :mrgreen:

rekcor schreef:That's no way of discussing things on a forum (imho). If you want to discuss the RP, you have to come up with those arguments yourself.

I thought that you were interesting, and i only wanted to provide for you some information, which could help you to understand.

But, if you are not satisfied with that, i will try to explain.

You wrote concerning: Ps. 33:1 Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise

First of all, what has this vers to do with NT worship, as God alone orders his way of worship ?
Second is, probely Psalm 33:1, hath even nothing to do with the OT congregational worship .

But if you believe so much that instruments are might use for the NT worship (which has no commend at all), and you are taken your view from a passage like Psalm 33, than iam wondering, why you would not use the exact same instruments as in the OT temple worship ?

On the autority and command of God himself these were given for the worship in the OT, this was not a personal choice or a personal taste from the people of God.

Within worship the only instruments allowed were psaltries, harps and cymbols. The timbrels were used during civil celebrations for national deliverance and were accompanied by women dancing.

And He (Hezekiah) set the Levites in the house of Jehovah with cymbals with psalteries, and with harps, according to the commandment of David, and of Gad the king's seer and Nathan the prophet; for the commandment was of Jehovah by His prophets" (II Chron. 29:25).

Another explanation for this Psalm 33 is, that this was a praise singing by David, which was like a enchant or drive the enemy warriors into panic and cowardice. So if this is true, tan these were not praise songs for congregational worship with David as the Musical Worship, but for ancient warfare.

Isn't it a bit strange that in the Old Testaments instruments were important. In Revelations it is stated that in heaven instruments are present as well. Why not in the time between?

I enjoy being in a church where the voices are the only instruments. However, I think it is putting man-made laws on a congregation if one wants to ban the instruments from the congregation services. I really see no biblical foundation for such a strict verdict. It is not only psalm 33, but also psalm 150 and other psalms that mention the instruments. I consider the arguments against applying those psalms to New-Testamentical worship as really far fetched.

Actually I wonder whether it is biblical to make a clear distinction between the sunday congregation worship and the private worship concerning these matters.

parsifal schreef:Isn't it a bit strange that in the Old Testaments instruments were important. In Revelations it is stated that in heaven instruments are present as well. Why not in the time between?

I enjoy being in a church where the voices are the only instruments. However, I think it is putting man-made laws on a congregation if one wants to ban the instruments from the congregation services. I really see no biblical foundation for such a strict verdict. It is not only psalm 33, but also psalm 150 and other psalms that mention the instruments. I consider the arguments against applying those psalms to New-Testamentical worship as really far fetched.

Actually I wonder whether it is biblical to make a clear distinction between the sunday congregation worship and the private worship concerning these matters.

I understand your pionts.

First of all, revelations discriptiption of worship of heaven with it's harps also has a Temple (15:5) with golden bowls full of incense (5:8 & 15:7) and a golden altar before the throne (8:3). Than also means that as the harp has to use into church, also the other aspects as the incense (which the RCC is still diong). John speaks figuratively of heaven's worship under the image of the OT Temple.

The Bible affirms that worship is always a matter of what God commands, so did God in the NT command to use instruments as a act of worship in the NT church? To say that this not matter and is a personal tatse what the congreration likes to not God-centred but man-centred thinking.

This has nothing to with a man-made laws on a congregation, i think that the use of instruments, which God did commanded at all, is a man-made law . I also want to make clear as i wrote before this a view that i hold to, but it will not keeps me away from a local body, which uses instruments, iam actually a member of an evangelical church.

Psalm 150
Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD

Here again is it written as a commandment by God Himself (with the “sanctuary” being spoken of clearly that of the temple, not the NT church — be careful not to confound categories because the words are the same — the Bible nowhere calls the NT assembly the “sanctuary”).

So if you believe that this OT Temple commandment is still in fuction for the NT Church, then one has an obligation to use all the specific instruments (trumpet, psaltery,harp, timbrel, dance, stringed instruments and organs) commanded and one must also use liturgical dance.

mayflower schreef:The Bible affirms that worship is always a matter of what God commands, so did God in the NT command to use instruments as a act of worship in the NT church? To say that this not matter and is a personal tatse what the congreration likes to not God-centred but man-centred thinking.

In the OT there where external laws for every aspect of life. This is just what changed when Jesus fulfilled these laws in the NT, and especially when the Holy Spirit was poured out on Pentecoast. From that moment on the Law is written upon the believer's hearts (Hebrews 8:8-12), which is the Law of Love.

So if you believe that this OT Temple commandment is still in fuction for the NT Church, then one has an obligation to use all the specific instruments (trumpet, psaltery,harp, timbrel, dance, stringed instruments and organs) commanded and one must also use liturgical dance.

This would be true if the RP is true. But I believe the RP to be both unbiblical as unpractical (it never can be 100% applied). Before we can discuss about music in the church, you have to prove the RP to be true.