National Israels future

Joannah
Berichten: 2544
Lid geworden op: 14 Okt 2009, 16:01

Re: National Israels future

Berichtdoor Joannah » 03 Jan 2011, 12:15

Israel's future is clear: Joel 3:1,2
Why do we spend money we don’t have on things we don’t need to create impressions that don’t last on people we don’t care about ?

Alexander CD
Berichten: 1063
Lid geworden op: 13 Sep 2008, 18:44

Re: National Israels future

Berichtdoor Alexander CD » 03 Jan 2011, 23:09

Aad schreef:I am a gentile and I will stay one, even in Christ Jesus, because He accepts me as a gentile, and He accepts a Jew as a Jew: and He brings us, Jew and gentile, together in Him, by breaking down the wall that seperated us.


Hi Aad,
I agree to some degree, a gentile doesn't have to becom a jew anymore like in OT times.
A German can stay a german and a Dutch fellow Dutch, but thats the natural site.
I want you to consider the spiritual site, where the bible speaks of in 1 corinthians 2 : 14-15
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.


Like a Jew belonged to Gods covenant people in the old dispensation, so a christian belongs to Gods Covenant people in the new dispensation, he is a spiritual Jew.

Because these things are spiritual discerned not everybody will understand it.

In Christ ACD

Gebruikersavatar
jvdg
Berichten: 12063
Lid geworden op: 12 Okt 2006, 14:07

Re: National Israels future

Berichtdoor jvdg » 03 Jan 2011, 23:38

Pagans and Jews are both under the judgement of the Lord.
In the Bible are very much promises for the Jews, but in the NT there are still more promises for the pagans.
Nevertheless the Jews are the people of the Lord, and He has given them all the promises in the OT.
So, His people can count for this promises, seen the fact that the OT never is deleted from the Bible.
But, up till now the most of them would mot believe in our Lord Jesus Christ

The Jewish people are still the people/children of the Lord, and He never shall them lose.
It is my very deeply hope that the Lord will show them as its own people seen by the whole world.

Soli Deo Gloria

Joannah
Berichten: 2544
Lid geworden op: 14 Okt 2009, 16:01

Re: National Israels future

Berichtdoor Joannah » 04 Jan 2011, 00:09

Alexander CD schreef:
Aad schreef:I am a gentile and I will stay one, even in Christ Jesus, because He accepts me as a gentile, and He accepts a Jew as a Jew: and He brings us, Jew and gentile, together in Him, by breaking down the wall that seperated us.


Hi Aad,
I agree to some degree, a gentile doesn't have to becom a jew anymore like in OT times.
A German can stay a german and a Dutch fellow Dutch, but thats the natural site.
I want you to consider the spiritual site, where the bible speaks of in 1 corinthians 2 : 14-15
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.


Like a Jew belonged to Gods covenant people in the old dispensation, so a christian belongs to Gods Covenant people in the new dispensation, he is a spiritual Jew.

Because these things are spiritual discerned not everybody will understand it.

In Christ ACD

Those who push replacement theology are "wise in their own conceits." They have shamefully twisted the Scriptures that refer to spiritual Jews, to spiritual Jerusalem, the spiritual Temple and spiritual Israel - that generously admits repentant Gentiles into the SPIRITUAL COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL - to spiritualize away God's faithful promises to physical Israel! Now that they've been admitted, they jealously want to exclude Judah and usurp Israel from their rightful place in God's plan! (Rom. 11:24). Individual Israelites may fall away, converted Gentiles grafted in, but the NATION OF ISRAEL is here to stay!

"O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance; We are thine: thou never barest rule over them [Gentiles]; they were not called by thy name" (Isa. 63:17-19).

Some Gentiles have forgotten that God hasn't called Israel to become spiritual Gentiles, but has called everyone to become spiritual Israelites! They've forgotten that ISRAEL IS THE HOLY ROOT to which they've become attached. Paul warned them: "Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee" (Rom. 11:18).
Why do we spend money we don’t have on things we don’t need to create impressions that don’t last on people we don’t care about ?

Fjodor
Berichten: 2970
Lid geworden op: 11 Jun 2009, 23:13

Re: National Israels future

Berichtdoor Fjodor » 04 Jan 2011, 01:20

Joannah schreef:
Alexander CD schreef:
Aad schreef:I am a gentile and I will stay one, even in Christ Jesus, because He accepts me as a gentile, and He accepts a Jew as a Jew: and He brings us, Jew and gentile, together in Him, by breaking down the wall that seperated us.


Hi Aad,
I agree to some degree, a gentile doesn't have to becom a jew anymore like in OT times.
A German can stay a german and a Dutch fellow Dutch, but thats the natural site.
I want you to consider the spiritual site, where the bible speaks of in 1 corinthians 2 : 14-15
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.


Like a Jew belonged to Gods covenant people in the old dispensation, so a christian belongs to Gods Covenant people in the new dispensation, he is a spiritual Jew.

Because these things are spiritual discerned not everybody will understand it.

In Christ ACD

Those who push replacement theology are "wise in their own conceits." They have shamefully twisted the Scriptures that refer to spiritual Jews, to spiritual Jerusalem, the spiritual Temple and spiritual Israel - that generously admits repentant Gentiles into the SPIRITUAL COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL - to spiritualize away God's faithful promises to physical Israel! Now that they've been admitted, they jealously want to exclude Judah and usurp Israel from their rightful place in God's plan! (Rom. 11:24). Individual Israelites may fall away, converted Gentiles grafted in, but the NATION OF ISRAEL is here to stay!

"O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance; We are thine: thou never barest rule over them [Gentiles]; they were not called by thy name" (Isa. 63:17-19).

Some Gentiles have forgotten that God hasn't called Israel to become spiritual Gentiles, but has called everyone to become spiritual Israelites! They've forgotten that ISRAEL IS THE HOLY ROOT to which they've become attached. Paul warned them: "Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee" (Rom. 11:18).

Now you're almost there, Joannah. Indeed we have become spiritual Israelites. And only the jews that are spiritiual Israelites too are Israelites. So the middlewall is broken away.
When I read your posts on this subject I'm always wondering what you mean by the promises of God that are given to the physical Israel. Abraham received the promises only by faith; because he believed God attached him in the holy Root.
Daartoe zijn de dingen gegeven, dat ze gebruikt worden; maar niet, opdat ze vergaard zouden worden - D. Bonhoeffer

Alexander CD
Berichten: 1063
Lid geworden op: 13 Sep 2008, 18:44

Re: National Israels future

Berichtdoor Alexander CD » 04 Jan 2011, 08:21

Joannah schreef:They have shamefully twisted the Scriptures that refer to spiritual Jews, to spiritual Jerusalem, the spiritual Temple and spiritual Israel -


Jesus said follow me, thats all we do!

Now you say the Lord Jesus has twisted scripture, look what the bible says,

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.


But as I said spiritual things most be discerned spiritually the natural man cannot understand them.

Joannah
Berichten: 2544
Lid geworden op: 14 Okt 2009, 16:01

Re: National Israels future

Berichtdoor Joannah » 04 Jan 2011, 08:58

Fjodor schreef:
Joannah schreef:
Alexander CD schreef:
Aad schreef:I am a gentile and I will stay one, even in Christ Jesus, because He accepts me as a gentile, and He accepts a Jew as a Jew: and He brings us, Jew and gentile, together in Him, by breaking down the wall that seperated us.


Hi Aad,
I agree to some degree, a gentile doesn't have to becom a jew anymore like in OT times.
A German can stay a german and a Dutch fellow Dutch, but thats the natural site.
I want you to consider the spiritual site, where the bible speaks of in 1 corinthians 2 : 14-15
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.


Like a Jew belonged to Gods covenant people in the old dispensation, so a christian belongs to Gods Covenant people in the new dispensation, he is a spiritual Jew.

Because these things are spiritual discerned not everybody will understand it.

In Christ ACD

Those who push replacement theology are "wise in their own conceits." They have shamefully twisted the Scriptures that refer to spiritual Jews, to spiritual Jerusalem, the spiritual Temple and spiritual Israel - that generously admits repentant Gentiles into the SPIRITUAL COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL - to spiritualize away God's faithful promises to physical Israel! Now that they've been admitted, they jealously want to exclude Judah and usurp Israel from their rightful place in God's plan! (Rom. 11:24). Individual Israelites may fall away, converted Gentiles grafted in, but the NATION OF ISRAEL is here to stay!

"O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance; We are thine: thou never barest rule over them [Gentiles]; they were not called by thy name" (Isa. 63:17-19).

Some Gentiles have forgotten that God hasn't called Israel to become spiritual Gentiles, but has called everyone to become spiritual Israelites! They've forgotten that ISRAEL IS THE HOLY ROOT to which they've become attached. Paul warned them: "Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee" (Rom. 11:18).

Now you're almost there, Joannah. Indeed we have become spiritual Israelites. And only the jews that are spiritiual Israelites too are Israelites. So the middlewall is broken away.
When I read your posts on this subject I'm always wondering what you mean by the promises of God that are given to the physical Israel. Abraham received the promises only by faith; because he believed God attached him in the holy Root.

And I am always wondering why people who dig so much into the Old Testament, (which is all about the Promise coming true in Christ, that the Holy Spirit will now dwell on earth with us and be given to those who believe)
Abraham wasn't attached to a holy root, these chosen people of God, who believe, ARE the root.
rom 11:16.
It's those tiny little alterations, sometimes only a proverb, that misinterpret the bible's texts and meanings.
Why do we spend money we don’t have on things we don’t need to create impressions that don’t last on people we don’t care about ?

Joannah
Berichten: 2544
Lid geworden op: 14 Okt 2009, 16:01

Re: National Israels future

Berichtdoor Joannah » 04 Jan 2011, 09:04

Alexander CD schreef:
Joannah schreef:They have shamefully twisted the Scriptures that refer to spiritual Jews, to spiritual Jerusalem, the spiritual Temple and spiritual Israel -


Jesus said follow me, thats all we do!

Now you say the Lord Jesus has twisted scripture, look what the bible says,

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.


But as I said spiritual things most be discerned spiritually the natural man cannot understand them.

Like in verse 21, the Bible explains it immediately.
So, let's leave it to the Scriptures.
Why do we spend money we don’t have on things we don’t need to create impressions that don’t last on people we don’t care about ?

Fjodor
Berichten: 2970
Lid geworden op: 11 Jun 2009, 23:13

Re: National Israels future

Berichtdoor Fjodor » 04 Jan 2011, 12:08

Joannah schreef:
Fjodor schreef:Now you're almost there, Joannah. Indeed we have become spiritual Israelites. And only the jews that are spiritiual Israelites too are Israelites. So the middlewall is broken away.
When I read your posts on this subject I'm always wondering what you mean by the promises of God that are given to the physical Israel. Abraham received the promises only by faith; because he believed God attached him in the holy Root.

And I am always wondering why people who dig so much into the Old Testament, (which is all about the Promise coming true in Christ, that the Holy Spirit will now dwell on earth with us and be given to those who believe)
Abraham wasn't attached to a holy root, these chosen people of God, who believe, ARE the root.
rom 11:16.
It's those tiny little alterations, sometimes only a proverb, that misinterpret the bible's texts and meanings.

But can you first tell me what you mean by Gods promises that He gave to the physical Israel? And please consider the epistel to the Hebrews, especially chapter eleven, I believe.

Then, when you read further in Romans 11, the physical Israel isn't just called the root. Paul speaks about them as the branches that are cut away! And we are the branches that are put in there place. You're right that Abraham is called the root there, but what does it mean? Abraham is called the root because the rest of the believers! are saved trough the same faith as he and so became residents of the same heavenly Jerusalem (Heb 12).
Daartoe zijn de dingen gegeven, dat ze gebruikt worden; maar niet, opdat ze vergaard zouden worden - D. Bonhoeffer

Joannah
Berichten: 2544
Lid geworden op: 14 Okt 2009, 16:01

Re: National Israels future

Berichtdoor Joannah » 04 Jan 2011, 12:50

Fjodor schreef:
Joannah schreef:
Fjodor schreef:Now you're almost there, Joannah. Indeed we have become spiritual Israelites. And only the jews that are spiritiual Israelites too are Israelites. So the middlewall is broken away.
When I read your posts on this subject I'm always wondering what you mean by the promises of God that are given to the physical Israel. Abraham received the promises only by faith; because he believed God attached him in the holy Root.

And I am always wondering why people who dig so much into the Old Testament, (which is all about the Promise coming true in Christ, that the Holy Spirit will now dwell on earth with us and be given to those who believe)
Abraham wasn't attached to a holy root, these chosen people of God, who believe, ARE the root.
rom 11:16.
It's those tiny little alterations, sometimes only a proverb, that misinterpret the bible's texts and meanings.

But can you first tell me what you mean by Gods promises that He gave to the physical Israel? And please consider the epistel to the Hebrews, especially chapter eleven, I believe.

Then, when you read further in Romans 11, the physical Israel isn't just called the root. Paul speaks about them as the branches that are cut away! And we are the branches that are put in there place. You're right that Abraham is called the root there, but what does it mean? Abraham is called the root because the rest of the believers! are saved trough the same faith as he and so became residents of the same heavenly Jerusalem (Heb 12).


That's right, Only faith will save, but branches are not roots.God is able to graff them in again and cut us off.
For I would not, brethren,
that ye should be ignorant of
this mystery, lest ye should be
wise in your own conceits; that
blindness in part is happened
to Israel, until the fulness of
the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be
saved: as it is written, There
shall come out of Sion the
Deliverer, and shall turn away
ungodliness from Jacob

For this is my covenant
unto them, when I shall take
away their sins.

I believe we exist along Israel, and not in stead of Israel.
Why do we spend money we don’t have on things we don’t need to create impressions that don’t last on people we don’t care about ?

Alexander CD
Berichten: 1063
Lid geworden op: 13 Sep 2008, 18:44

Re: National Israels future

Berichtdoor Alexander CD » 04 Jan 2011, 23:27

God has to give knowlegde about His truth otherwise we cannot grasp it.
The natural man sees the natural things, Jews, Jerusalem palestine etc. but see not the spiritual mysteries of God.
the bible tells us many times


"Ye have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt, unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land; the great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and these great miracles: yet the Lord has not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this, day," (Deut. 29: 2, 3, 4.)

and

In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not," (John 1: 4, 5.)

and

"A man can receive nothing, unless it be given him from heaven," (John 3: 27.)


"The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, for they are spiritually discerned," (1 Cor. 2: 14.) Whom does he mean by the "natural man"? The man who trusts to the light of nature. Such a man has no understanding in the spiritual mysteries of God. Why so? Is it because through sloth he neglects them? Nay, though he exert himself, it is of no avail; they are "spiritually discerned." And what does this mean? That altogether hidden from human discernment, they are made known only by the revelation of the Spirit; so that they are accounted foolishness wherever the Spirit does not give light. The Apostle had previously declared, that "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him;" nay, that the wisdom of the world is a kind of veil by which the mind is prevented from beholding God, (1 Cor. 2: 9.) What would we more? The Apostle declares that God has "made foolish the wisdom of this world," (1 Cor. 1: 20;) and shall we attribute to it an acuteness capable of penetrating to God, and the hidden mysteries of his kingdom? Far from us be such presumption!

We can only pray if God in His great mercy wil gives us His Spirit!


Without the light of the Spirit, all is darkness

ACD

Fjodor
Berichten: 2970
Lid geworden op: 11 Jun 2009, 23:13

Re: National Israels future

Berichtdoor Fjodor » 04 Jan 2011, 23:37

Joannah schreef:
Fjodor schreef:But can you first tell me what you mean by Gods promises that He gave to the physical Israel? And please consider the epistel to the Hebrews, especially chapter eleven, I believe.

Then, when you read further in Romans 11, the physical Israel isn't just called the root. Paul speaks about them as the branches that are cut away! And we are the branches that are put in there place. You're right that Abraham is called the root there, but what does it mean? Abraham is called the root because the rest of the believers! are saved trough the same faith as he and so became residents of the same heavenly Jerusalem (Heb 12).


That's right, Only faith will save, but branches are not roots.God is able to graff them in again and cut us off.
For I would not, brethren,
that ye should be ignorant of
this mystery, lest ye should be
wise in your own conceits; that
blindness in part is happened
to Israel, until the fulness of
the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be
saved: as it is written, There
shall come out of Sion the
Deliverer, and shall turn away
ungodliness from Jacob

For this is my covenant
unto them, when I shall take
away their sins.

I believe we exist along Israel, and not in stead of Israel.

You don't answer my questions. And I showed you that Israel is also called branches, you said something different, maybe you could make a comment to that point too?
Daartoe zijn de dingen gegeven, dat ze gebruikt worden; maar niet, opdat ze vergaard zouden worden - D. Bonhoeffer

Joannah
Berichten: 2544
Lid geworden op: 14 Okt 2009, 16:01

Re: National Israels future

Berichtdoor Joannah » 05 Jan 2011, 00:00

Fjodor schreef:
Joannah schreef:
Fjodor schreef:But can you first tell me what you mean by Gods promises that He gave to the physical Israel? And please consider the epistel to the Hebrews, especially chapter eleven, I believe.

Then, when you read further in Romans 11, the physical Israel isn't just called the root. Paul speaks about them as the branches that are cut away! And we are the branches that are put in there place. You're right that Abraham is called the root there, but what does it mean? Abraham is called the root because the rest of the believers! are saved trough the same faith as he and so became residents of the same heavenly Jerusalem (Heb 12).


That's right, Only faith will save, but branches are not roots.God is able to graff them in again and cut us off.
For I would not, brethren,
that ye should be ignorant of
this mystery, lest ye should be
wise in your own conceits; that
blindness in part is happened
to Israel, until the fulness of
the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be
saved: as it is written, There
shall come out of Sion the
Deliverer, and shall turn away
ungodliness from Jacob

For this is my covenant
unto them, when I shall take
away their sins.

I believe we exist along Israel, and not in stead of Israel.

You don't answer my questions. And I showed you that Israel is also called branches, you said something different, maybe you could make a comment to that point too?

Israel and we, the gentiles, are both branches.
When our number is completed, He will turn to His favourite, chosen people, once again. And ALL Israel shall be saved.
Why do we spend money we don’t have on things we don’t need to create impressions that don’t last on people we don’t care about ?

Fjodor
Berichten: 2970
Lid geworden op: 11 Jun 2009, 23:13

Re: National Israels future

Berichtdoor Fjodor » 05 Jan 2011, 00:06

Joannah schreef:
Fjodor schreef:
Joannah schreef:
Fjodor schreef:But can you first tell me what you mean by Gods promises that He gave to the physical Israel? And please consider the epistel to the Hebrews, especially chapter eleven, I believe.

Then, when you read further in Romans 11, the physical Israel isn't just called the root. Paul speaks about them as the branches that are cut away! And we are the branches that are put in there place. You're right that Abraham is called the root there, but what does it mean? Abraham is called the root because the rest of the believers! are saved trough the same faith as he and so became residents of the same heavenly Jerusalem (Heb 12).


That's right, Only faith will save, but branches are not roots.God is able to graff them in again and cut us off.
For I would not, brethren,
that ye should be ignorant of
this mystery, lest ye should be
wise in your own conceits; that
blindness in part is happened
to Israel, until the fulness of
the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be
saved: as it is written, There
shall come out of Sion the
Deliverer, and shall turn away
ungodliness from Jacob

For this is my covenant
unto them, when I shall take
away their sins.

I believe we exist along Israel, and not in stead of Israel.

You don't answer my questions. And I showed you that Israel is also called branches, you said something different, maybe you could make a comment to that point too?

Israel and we, the gentiles, are both branches.
When our number is completed, He will turn to His favourite, chosen people, once again. And ALL Israel shall be saved.

Allright then, what's the difference? The Israelites will be graffed in as branches. And we will be graffed in as branches.
But what promises has God given to the phiysical Israel?
Daartoe zijn de dingen gegeven, dat ze gebruikt worden; maar niet, opdat ze vergaard zouden worden - D. Bonhoeffer

Joannah
Berichten: 2544
Lid geworden op: 14 Okt 2009, 16:01

Re: National Israels future

Berichtdoor Joannah » 05 Jan 2011, 00:42

The answer to that question is written in Rom 11:27 and 28.
Also:
Jer 30:1-9
Joel 3:1-2
Ezek 20:34-44
Why do we spend money we don’t have on things we don’t need to create impressions that don’t last on people we don’t care about ?


Terug naar “Theologie - In English”

Wie is er online

Gebruikers op dit forum: Geen geregistreerde gebruikers en 2 gasten