The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture

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mayflower
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The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture

Berichtdoor mayflower » 24 Jul 2009, 17:17

The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5koD4OGkvM

Above Rubies Vision part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmHgIWCr ... re=related

Above Rubies Vision part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H--sqdJX ... re=related

rekcor
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Re: The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture

Berichtdoor rekcor » 24 Jul 2009, 21:53

I only was able to view the first video, but I did not like the type of reasoning: if you do not get a lot of children, you are on satan's side. This type of reasoning reminds me of former president Bush, which is not meant as a compliment. Imho, the message would have been much more powerful if it was more balanced, e.g. by adding another person in the show giving some counterarguments.

The way I see it, the bible is telling us more than 'be fruitful' only. We also have to take care of this world (e.g. Gen 1:28, the second part)! What should we do then, when being fruitful compromises (because I think it does) our duty as stewards over God's creation?
Laatst gewijzigd door rekcor op 24 Jul 2009, 22:40, 3 keer totaal gewijzigd.

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jvdg
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Re: The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture

Berichtdoor jvdg » 24 Jul 2009, 22:13

PLease rekcor, this dispute should be made in English.

Alexander CD
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Re: The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture

Berichtdoor Alexander CD » 24 Jul 2009, 22:14

er zijn inderdaad spanningsvelden tussen Gods woord en het menselijk ongeloof.

Alexander CD
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Re: The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture

Berichtdoor Alexander CD » 24 Jul 2009, 22:15

OK let God be true and every man a lyer.

rekcor
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Re: The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture

Berichtdoor rekcor » 24 Jul 2009, 22:38

Alexander CD schreef:er zijn inderdaad spanningsvelden tussen Gods woord en het menselijk ongeloof.


What are you implying?

Alexander CD
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Re: The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture

Berichtdoor Alexander CD » 25 Jul 2009, 07:55

rekcor schreef:
Alexander CD schreef:er zijn inderdaad spanningsvelden tussen Gods woord en het menselijk ongeloof.


What are you implying?


There's no tension in Gods word, tension comes in when mans idee differs from Gods word.
For most "professing christians" today Gods word is there own idee mixed with some bible verses.
There is no more absolute truth in the holy writ.
I think we should give the bible back, its authority over itself.
In this way is the bible, God speaking to us, and if its say be fruitfull and multiply we have to believe and obey.
Do you think that how you view the world does change Gods word to us?

rekcor
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Re: The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture

Berichtdoor rekcor » 25 Jul 2009, 11:41

There's no tension in Gods word


Please give me some arguments why, because I do not see why tensions are a bad thing or making God's word become less true.

Another tension: God commands us to believe (e.g. 1 John 3:23), but we can't (Mark 10:26-27).

So I am afraid you are making the same mistake as you blame on "professing christians"

For most "professing christians" today Gods word is there own idee mixed with some bible verses.


with one difference: you are not even mixing it with some bible verses.

Alexander CD
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Re: The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture

Berichtdoor Alexander CD » 25 Jul 2009, 14:35

The key part is both people "SAY" they are basing it on scripture. But merely saying they are basing it upon scripture is a far cry from them actually basing their interpretation upon scripture. A base is the fundamental part, the beginning, the solid foundation. For example, a Pastor may say you can get a divorce for cruelty, and he will "say" that he bases that upon scripture, but those are "just words!" His words, not God's. Which is why we all have to "try" men's words by the Word of God.

1st John 4:1

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."What are the principles of sound hermeneutics? They are found in the essential "system" of letting the scriptures define, interpret, and explain themselves. By contrast, an unsound hermeneutic or system of interpretation, is most often illustrated in theologians filling up space with "extra-biblical" declarations as if they prove what these men are saying is true. For example, John Calvin said this, Oral Roberts said this, the Roman catholic Church teaches this, or Dr. John Walvoord wrote the other, etc.. That is often what passes for scholarly bible study, but it's nothing more than name dropping and following tradition.

Another example of an unsound hermeneutic is when Theologians read what a particular passage "says," and then proceeding to explain to you why the passage "actually means" something other than what is written. i.e., Chosen of God doesn't really mean God chooses, or translated into Christ's kingdom doesn't really mean Christ has His kingdom yet, or branches cut off from an Olive tree doesn't really mean they actually can be cut off, etc. In other words, with an unsound hermeneutic, there is always an excuse why we cannot simply "RECEIVE" the love of truth of what is clearly written. The reasons given will be varied, but the motive are always the same. To avoid "RECEIVING" the truth of what is being said. An example of this is recorded in the reasoning of unsaved men in Matthew:

Matthew 21:25-27

"The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things[/i]."
They were not noble (acts 17:11) or honest with themselves, and thus were not really seeking truth, but seeking to justify themselves. Therefore, they never learned the "Authority" of the "Word of God!"

rekcor
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Re: The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture

Berichtdoor rekcor » 03 Aug 2009, 08:55

Alexander CD schreef:Another example of an unsound hermeneutic is when Theologians read what a particular passage "says," and then proceeding to explain to you why the passage "actually means" something other than what is written.


In principle, you are right of course. But some bible passages are just not ment to be taken literally. E.g. I do not think you are blind, because you are taking Marc 9:47 literally!

Besides that, the question here is not whether Gen 1:28 should or should not be taken literally. I was arguing that the Bible is more than Gen 1:28 only. God also asks of us to take good care of His creation (practical examples: Ex 20:10, Deut 5:14, Ex 23:10-12, Lev. 25:1-7, Deut 22:6-7, Deut 22:10, Deut: 25:4, Prov 12:10). So:

1) God blessed us in Gen 1:28 to be fruitful and to increase in number
2) God asks us to take care of His creation
3) Nowadays, overpopulation is causing large problems

leads to

4) Some form of family planning is ok.

Which points do you disagree?

Alexander CD
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Re: The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture

Berichtdoor Alexander CD » 03 Aug 2009, 13:58

Its is not only literally but also spritually, both are true, if it is Gods will we should have kids not as the world 1 or 2 but more next to it we should always be prepared to bring the truth of the Gospel.

In making decisions it is always important to know out what kind of source you are taking your truth, what is your worldview, comes it from your TV our do you have a biblical reformed worldview?

Do you believe that overpopulation is the problem as the world believes it( that God is not able to take care of that problem) or do you believe what the bible says, it doesn't talk about it at all!

At the moment I am in Canada if I move up north a 100 km I hardly can find any population.

The single most important thing in this life is to keep the truth of Gods word and believe it.

If we keep Gods word, God is our shepherd, He takes care of us with His almighty hand.

That overpopulation is causing large problems is due to that we do NOT keep Gods commandments. as humans, but we want everything for ourselfs.

rekcor
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Re: The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture

Berichtdoor rekcor » 03 Aug 2009, 14:30

Alexander CD schreef:Do you believe that overpopulation is the problem as the world believes it( that God is not able to take care of that problem)


Of course I believe God can take care of the problem. But that is not the point. The point is that I believe He asks us to take care!

This reminds of Matthew 4:

Matthew 4 schreef:Next, the devil took Jesus to the holy city and had him stand on the highest part of the temple. The devil said, “If you are God's Son, jump off. The Scriptures say:

‘God will give his angels
orders about you.
They will catch you
in their arms,
and you won't hurt
your feet on the stones.’

Jesus answered, “The Scriptures also say, ‘Don't try to test the Lord your God!’ ”


Of course angels would have prevented Jesus from falling, but for Jesus this is not a good argument to jump, because as a human being, God has given Him the responsibility to take care of his own body. The same counts for Gods creation.

Alexander CD
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Re: The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture

Berichtdoor Alexander CD » 05 Aug 2009, 14:10

rekcor schreef:
Alexander CD schreef:Do you believe that overpopulation is the problem as the world believes it( that God is not able to take care of that problem)


Of course I believe God can take care of the problem. But that is not the point. The point is that I believe He asks us to take care!

This reminds of Matthew 4:

Matthew 4 schreef:Next, the devil took Jesus to the holy city and had him stand on the highest part of the temple. The devil said, “If you are God's Son, jump off. The Scriptures say:

‘God will give his angels
orders about you.
They will catch you
in their arms,
and you won't hurt
your feet on the stones.’

Jesus answered, “The Scriptures also say, ‘Don't try to test the Lord your God!’ ”


Of course angels would have prevented Jesus from falling, but for Jesus this is not a good argument to jump, because as a human being, God has given Him the responsibility to take care of his own body. The same counts for Gods creation.

You are reading something in the preceding passage what it doesn't say. It doesn't say we have take care of our own body but that we shouldn't tempt the Lord.
Actually God is taking care of our bodies, but we have to seek first His kingdom and His righteousness and than all will be given unto us.
For many christians the preservation of this sinfull earth is much more important than to keep Gods commands, I don't say that its more important for you also, that's why you hear a lot of arguments for conservation, it has a lot to do with the postmillenial view, everything has to go better.

As His people we have to please God through keeping His word for our live, believe in His Son and give Him the Honor, because He gave His live

rekcor
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Lid geworden op: 15 Aug 2005, 11:25

Re: The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture

Berichtdoor rekcor » 06 Aug 2009, 08:37

Alexander CD schreef:You are reading something in the preceding passage what it doesn't say. It doesn't say we have take care of our own body but that we shouldn't tempt the Lord.


But why would Jesus temp the Lord when He would jump of the temple? In my view: because He would act irresponsibly and put His life/body in jeopardy. So the one is the result of the other.

Alexander CD schreef:Actually God is taking care of our bodies, but we have to seek first His kingdom and His righteousness and than all will be given unto us.


Amen!

Alexander CD schreef:For many christians the preservation of this sinfull earth is much more important than to keep Gods commands, .


No, the preservation of the earth is obeying Gods commands. Not that we should expect to recreate paradise on earth (this is impossible due to sin), not that we should put our trust in earthly things (which is a good definition of 'sin'), but because God orders us to do so until Jesus' return.

Alexander CD
Berichten: 1063
Lid geworden op: 13 Sep 2008, 18:44

Re: The command to "be fruitful and multiply" in today's culture

Berichtdoor Alexander CD » 06 Aug 2009, 15:10

rekcor schreef:But why would Jesus temp the Lord when He would jump of the temple? In my view: because He would act irresponsibly and put His life/body in jeopardy. So the one is the result of the other.

first a all the bible tells us.
and because in Jesus days the jews where looking for signs and miracles, and a king says I will not tempt the Lord by asking a sign, then the prophet says, a virgin shall be with child.
Today we have "christians" who are looking for miracles and signs, but Jesus tells us a evil and a adulterus generation aks for a sign. so looking for a sign is a sinn we should trust in the Lord.
rekcor schreef:No, the preservation of the earth is obeying Gods commands. Not that we should expect to recreate paradise on earth (this is impossible due to sin), not that we should put our trust in earthly things (which is a good definition of 'sin'), but because God orders us to do so until Jesus' return.
but that not secondary to be fruitfull. First things first, how can a christian perservate the world; by keeping Gods word pure, doing something different then the world, and that is, trust in the Almighty God.


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