G'day Luther,
Regarding the quoted text I had posted, you say:
This is a piece of right judgement, the foundations of the church have been eroded for the last centuries.
This erosion then began way way back. In the Reformed tradition, it began with men like Calvin, like Bullinger, like Musculus and others. On the historical level, it is undeniable that the earliest Reformers taught
1) a sincere divine desire for the salvation of all men by will revealed
2) a general love of affection for all men, which is distinguished from his electing love.
3) a restraining common grace which effects civic good
4) a gracious favourable disposition to all men
5) a sincere and well-meaning offer of the Gospel to all who hear it.
Where is common grace coming from,
Biblically it comes from verses like Is 26:10, Luke 6:36, 1 Tim 4:10, and so forth.
the bible doesn't tell me that Christ lay His life down for the goats, only for the sheep,
Well Bullinger, wether we like it or not, Bullinger said Christ died for all men. Musculus said all man, universally have been redeemed. Zwingli said the expiation was for all who have lived and shall live, and so on. Whether a person agrees or not, likes it or not, this is what many Reformers taught:
http://calvinandcalvinism.com/?page_id=214
Johnson is right when he says grace is always particular.
Johnson is contra-Scripture: Hos 9:15, 2 Sam 7:15 Matt 5:45, etc.
But my point directly targeted the historical claims from Johnson.
With all friendliness and sincerity, I challenge anyone to read the files I have posted on Calvin on general love on common grace, as well as the comments of many other Reformers, and after reading them tell me that Calvin, or these other Reformers, believed in common grace and general love?
Common grace is only possible when the scriptures are twisted, but we have the love for the truth so we believe what the bible says.
I think it is impossible to deny that Saul was once loved with the hesed of God, which was removed. I think it impossible to deny that God says he stopped loving apostate Israel. I think it is impossible to say that Isa 26:10 does not imply, properly, that grace is shown to the wicked.
I am sure that men like Calvin, Luther, Turretin and Owen are opposed to common grace, have you read "the death of death in the dead of Christ?
Well I invite you, sincerely exhort you to read the following. Each file is only a click away. I encourage you to just click and read:
On General Love:
Calvin:
http://calvinandcalvinism.com//?p=93
Owen:
http://calvinandcalvinism.com//?p=61
Turretin:
http://calvinandcalvinism.com//?p=115
Common Grace:
Calvin:
http://calvinandcalvinism.com//?p=131 http://calvinandcalvinism.com//?p=123
Owen:
http://calvinandcalvinism.com//?p=127
Turretin:
http://calvinandcalvinism.com//?p=138
You will soon find out that Owen was not believing such a thing as common grace.
Well no, he explicitly affirms common grace. He held to restraining grace and civic good as an effect of this common restraining grace.
I say again, the claim that the Reformed denied common grace and general love is just impossible to hold if one reads the primary sources.
Sincerely, I invite you to read some of the files. All you have to do is click the links. The files dont bite. :-) I challenge you, in a friendly Christian way, to read the files and then try to claim that these men did not teach common grace and general love.
Take care,
David