The Myth of Common Grace by Garrett P. Johnson

Alexander CD
Berichten: 1063
Lid geworden op: 13 Sep 2008, 18:44

Re: The Myth of Common Grace by Garrett P. Johnson

Berichtdoor Alexander CD » 19 Feb 2009, 23:22

It is our hope and prayer that all who love the truth of Scripture and the precious doctrines of sovereign grace may see the error of the free offer and reject it.



May God bless these efforts to His glory and the cause of His precious gospel in the midst of the world.

The free offer has to be rejected, Its our duty to give God the glory

Gebruikersavatar
Bert Mulder
Berichten: 9060
Lid geworden op: 28 Aug 2006, 22:07
Locatie: Sherwood Park Alberta Canada
Contact:

Re: The Myth of Common Grace by Garrett P. Johnson

Berichtdoor Bert Mulder » 20 Feb 2009, 19:00

memento schreef:Beste Bert, de vraag of algemene genade bestaat, wordt al beantwoord in de vraag of er een welgemeend aanbod van genade is. Wie het welgemeende aanbod van genade ontkent, kan niet anders dan ook het bestaan van algemene genade ontkennen.

Wie, met mij (en het overgrote deel der oudvaders), wel graag aan het welgemeend vasthoudt, kan niet anders dan ook spreken over algemene genade.


Esteemed Memento, administrator of this board, must I remind you of the forum rules?

1. This was not my discussion. Do not engage in this manner of (or any) personal attacks.


2. This is the english language part of the board...

To speak to the substance of this discussion, my views regarding a wellmeant offer are well known on this board. Please search this forum for my views.

And, I am consistent there, that I believe there is no wellmeant offer, nor any common grace...

My views were shaped, in the first place by Dr. Steenblok, and the preaching in the GGinN. It was further shaped by Ds. Hoeksema, and the preaching in the PRCA. Especially what happened in the schism with the Christian Reformed Church, in 1924, regarding the socalled 'Three Points of Common Grace", which practically repudiated the total depravity of man, by marrying the call of the gospel to man being able to do good. Thus it is taught in the CRC that man, by his own volition, CAN accept the wellmeant offer.

http://www.prca.org/articles/article_7.html
Mijn enige troost is, dat ik niet mijn, maar Jezus Christus eigen ben, Die voor mijn zonden betaald heeft, en zo bewaart, dat alles tot mijn zaligheid dienen moet; waarom Hij mij ook door Zijn Heilige Geest van eeuwig leven verzekert, en Hem voortaan te leven van harte willig en bereid maakt.

Alexander CD
Berichten: 1063
Lid geworden op: 13 Sep 2008, 18:44

Re: The Myth of Common Grace by Garrett P. Johnson

Berichtdoor Alexander CD » 20 Feb 2009, 22:30

that I believe there is no wellmeant offer, nor any common grace...

Amen!

Jongere
Berichten: 7685
Lid geworden op: 14 Apr 2004, 15:45

Re: The Myth of Common Grace by Garrett P. Johnson

Berichtdoor Jongere » 20 Feb 2009, 22:40

Alexander CD schreef:
that I believe there is no wellmeant offer, nor any common grace...

Amen!

En nu nog inhoudelijk de discussie voeren in het andere topic. :)

Flynn
Berichten: 90
Lid geworden op: 21 Mar 2007, 12:25

Re: The Myth of Common Grace by Garrett P. Johnson

Berichtdoor Flynn » 01 Apr 2009, 18:53

Hello again:

Alexander CD schreef:
that I believe there is no wellmeant offer, nor any common grace...

Amen!


I gotta say, it is a contradiction to assert the denial of common grace and the free offer as being Reformed. Contrary to Hanko, Owen, Turretin, and countless others all affirm common grace. They also speak of the free offer. Owen uses terms like overture and proffer of the gospel.

Johnson is just confused when he says things like this:

Saving grace is not common. It is particular. Sin is common. For forty years the Orthodox Presbyterian Church has been confused about this matter. Perhaps there are some within it who will choose Paul, Calvin, Luther, Turretin, Hodge, Warfield, Owen, Gill, Kuyper, Hoeksema, and Clark rather than Murray, Stonehouse, and Van Til. If so, they had better do it quickly, for the deadly effects of irrationalism have already seriously eroded the foundations of that church.


Turretin affirmed general love and common grace and that God does desire that all men come and be save by will revealed.

Luther affirmed common grace, the will of God for the salvation of all men, and unlimited expiation.

Calvin affirmed general love, common grace, God's desire that all men be saved, etc.

Owen affirmed general love, common grace, and God's willingness that all come and be saved.

AA Hodge affirmed general love, God's willingness that all men be saved, and common grace.

Gill is a mixed bag: he affirmed general love, while denying duty-faith and the doctrine that God desires the salvation of all men

Hanko's historical analysis is dreadful as well. I am still struck by the inability of some to admit the true history on these points. One may disagree theologically, one may not like it at all, but one cannot maintain that the denial of common grace, the free offer, and general love is historic Reformed theology.

Its all documented here: http://calvinandcalvinism.com/?page_id=214

David

Alexander CD
Berichten: 1063
Lid geworden op: 13 Sep 2008, 18:44

Re: The Myth of Common Grace by Garrett P. Johnson

Berichtdoor Alexander CD » 01 Apr 2009, 21:48

hallo Flyn,

Citaat:
Saving grace is not common. It is particular. Sin is common. For forty years the Orthodox Presbyterian Church has been confused about this matter. Perhaps there are some within it who will choose Paul, Calvin, Luther, Turretin, Hodge, Warfield, Owen, Gill, Kuyper, Hoeksema, and Clark rather than Murray, Stonehouse, and Van Til. If so, they had better do it quickly, for the deadly effects of irrationalism have already seriously eroded the foundations of that church.


This is a piece of right judgement, the foundations of the church have been eroded for the last centuries.
Where is common grace coming from, the bible doesn't tell me that Christ lay His life down for the goats, only for the sheep, Johnson is right when he says grace is always particular.
Common grace is only possible when the scriptures are twisted, but we have the love for the truth so we believe what the bible says.
I am sure that men like Calvin, Luther, Turretin and Owen are opposed to common grace, have you read "the death of death in the dead of Christ?
You will soon find out that Owen was not believing such a thing as common grace.

Gebruikersavatar
Luther
Berichten: 15857
Lid geworden op: 25 Jun 2008, 20:16
Contact:

Re: The Myth of Common Grace by Garrett P. Johnson

Berichtdoor Luther » 03 Apr 2009, 17:32

Alexander CD schreef:hallo Flyn,

Citaat:
Saving grace is not common. It is particular. Sin is common. For forty years the Orthodox Presbyterian Church has been confused about this matter. Perhaps there are some within it who will choose Paul, Calvin, Luther, Turretin, Hodge, Warfield, Owen, Gill, Kuyper, Hoeksema, and Clark rather than Murray, Stonehouse, and Van Til. If so, they had better do it quickly, for the deadly effects of irrationalism have already seriously eroded the foundations of that church.


This is a piece of right judgement, the foundations of the church have been eroded for the last centuries.
Where is common grace coming from, the bible doesn't tell me that Christ lay His life down for the goats, only for the sheep, Johnson is right when he says grace is always particular.
Common grace is only possible when the scriptures are twisted, but we have the love for the truth so we believe what the bible says.
I am sure that men like Calvin, Luther, Turretin and Owen are opposed to common grace, have you read "the death of death in the dead of Christ?
You will soon find out that Owen was not believing such a thing as common grace.

Alexander, Amen!
De kracht van het Evangelie zit in de bezittelijke voornaamwoorden. (Maarten Luther, WA 101, 2, 25)

Flynn
Berichten: 90
Lid geworden op: 21 Mar 2007, 12:25

Re: The Myth of Common Grace by Garrett P. Johnson

Berichtdoor Flynn » 06 Apr 2009, 23:41

G'day Luther,

Regarding the quoted text I had posted, you say:

This is a piece of right judgement, the foundations of the church have been eroded for the last centuries.


This erosion then began way way back. In the Reformed tradition, it began with men like Calvin, like Bullinger, like Musculus and others. On the historical level, it is undeniable that the earliest Reformers taught

1) a sincere divine desire for the salvation of all men by will revealed
2) a general love of affection for all men, which is distinguished from his electing love.
3) a restraining common grace which effects civic good
4) a gracious favourable disposition to all men
5) a sincere and well-meaning offer of the Gospel to all who hear it.

Where is common grace coming from,


Biblically it comes from verses like Is 26:10, Luke 6:36, 1 Tim 4:10, and so forth.

the bible doesn't tell me that Christ lay His life down for the goats, only for the sheep,


Well Bullinger, wether we like it or not, Bullinger said Christ died for all men. Musculus said all man, universally have been redeemed. Zwingli said the expiation was for all who have lived and shall live, and so on. Whether a person agrees or not, likes it or not, this is what many Reformers taught: http://calvinandcalvinism.com/?page_id=214

Johnson is right when he says grace is always particular.


Johnson is contra-Scripture: Hos 9:15, 2 Sam 7:15 Matt 5:45, etc.

But my point directly targeted the historical claims from Johnson.

With all friendliness and sincerity, I challenge anyone to read the files I have posted on Calvin on general love on common grace, as well as the comments of many other Reformers, and after reading them tell me that Calvin, or these other Reformers, believed in common grace and general love?

Common grace is only possible when the scriptures are twisted, but we have the love for the truth so we believe what the bible says.


I think it is impossible to deny that Saul was once loved with the hesed of God, which was removed. I think it impossible to deny that God says he stopped loving apostate Israel. I think it is impossible to say that Isa 26:10 does not imply, properly, that grace is shown to the wicked.

I am sure that men like Calvin, Luther, Turretin and Owen are opposed to common grace, have you read "the death of death in the dead of Christ?


Well I invite you, sincerely exhort you to read the following. Each file is only a click away. I encourage you to just click and read:

On General Love:
Calvin: http://calvinandcalvinism.com//?p=93
Owen: http://calvinandcalvinism.com//?p=61
Turretin: http://calvinandcalvinism.com//?p=115

Common Grace:
Calvin: http://calvinandcalvinism.com//?p=131 http://calvinandcalvinism.com//?p=123
Owen: http://calvinandcalvinism.com//?p=127
Turretin: http://calvinandcalvinism.com//?p=138

You will soon find out that Owen was not believing such a thing as common grace.


Well no, he explicitly affirms common grace. He held to restraining grace and civic good as an effect of this common restraining grace.

I say again, the claim that the Reformed denied common grace and general love is just impossible to hold if one reads the primary sources.

Sincerely, I invite you to read some of the files. All you have to do is click the links. The files dont bite. :-) I challenge you, in a friendly Christian way, to read the files and then try to claim that these men did not teach common grace and general love.

Take care,
David


Terug naar “Theologie - In English”

Wie is er online

Gebruikers op dit forum: Geen geregistreerde gebruikers en 1 gast