Call the Sabbath a Delight!

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Bert Mulder
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Call the Sabbath a Delight!

Berichtdoor Bert Mulder » 02 Mei 2007, 20:05

Welcome to our special issue on the Lord’s Day. The Old Testament name Sabbath emphasizes the truth that we are to rest in the mighty works of God, notably our salvation sealed in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The New Testament name Lord’s Day emphasizes that Jesus Christ is Lord of the entire Sabbath, and He determines what is right for the day. This special day, established by God as a creation ordinance, is one that even the ungodly cannot ignore totally. And yet, in both respects—as Sabbath and as the Lord’s Day—God’s law is trampled underfoot. That the unbelieving and ungodly do so is to be expected. What especially grieves God’s people is the sight of family members and churchgoers desecrating this day. Far greater sorrow we have at the realization of how little regard we believers have for it.

May God be pleased by this special issue to instruct, encourage, admonish us all in the profitable use of His day.

A hearty thanks to our regular writers as well as the special contributors, Rev. Mark Shand and Mrs. Michael Bosveld.


Read all of this special issue of the Standard Bearer here:

http://www.rfpa.org/sb/TheStandardBeare ... OCValue4=0
Mijn enige troost is, dat ik niet mijn, maar Jezus Christus eigen ben, Die voor mijn zonden betaald heeft, en zo bewaart, dat alles tot mijn zaligheid dienen moet; waarom Hij mij ook door Zijn Heilige Geest van eeuwig leven verzekert, en Hem voortaan te leven van harte willig en bereid maakt.

albion
Berichten: 7514
Lid geworden op: 27 Dec 2007, 19:23
Locatie: ergens in nederland

Re: Call the Sabbath a Delight!

Berichtdoor albion » 29 Dec 2009, 13:28

Ter uwer informatie. Als ik dit lees dan kom ik in alles tekort.

Thomas Watson schreef:From Heaven taken by storm (Thomas Watson)

The Lord's day

The sixth duty wherein we must offer violence to ourselves is the religious sanctifying of the Lord's day. That there should be a day of holy rest dedicated to God, appears from the institution: 'Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.' Our Christian Sabbath comes in the room of the Jewish Sabbath: it is called 'the Lord's day'(Rev. 1.10) from Christ the Author of it. Our Sabbath is altered by Christ's own appointment. He arose this day out of the grave, and appeared on it often to His disciples to intimate to them (saith Athanasius) that He transferred the Sabbath to the Lord's day. And Augustine saith that by Christ's rising on the first day of the week, it was consecrated to be the Christian Sabbath in remembrance of His resurrection.
This day was anciently called dies lucis, the day of light, as Junius observes. The other days of the week would be dark, were it not for the shining of the 'Sun of RIghteousness' on this day. This day hath been called by the ancients, regina dieruni, the queen of days. And Hierom prefers this day abouve all solemn festivals. The primitive church had this day in hig veneration; it was a great badge of their religion, for when the question was asked, Keepest thou the Sabbath? the answer was made: I am a Christian, and dare not omit the celebration of the Lord's cay.
What great cause have we thankfully to remember this day! As the benefit of Israel's deliverance from the Babylonish captivity was so great that it drowned the remembrance of their deliverance from Satan's captivity, and the rising of Christ from finishing the glorious work of our redemption was so famous, that in respect of it His other benefits recieve as it were a diminution. Great was the work of creation, but greater the work of redemption. It cost more to redeem us than make us. In the one there was only the speaking a word (Ps. 148.5), in the other the shedding of blood (Hebr. 9.22). The creation was the work of God's fingers (Ps. 8.3), the redemption the work of His arm (Luk. 1.51). In the creation God gave us ourselves; in the redemption He gave us Himself. So that the Sabbath, putting us in mind of our redemption, ought to be observed with the highest devotion. Herein we must offer holy violence to ourselves.
When this blessed day approacheth, we should labour that as the day is sanctified, so our hearts may be sanctified.
We must on this day rest from all the works of our calling. As Abraham, when he went to sacrifice, left his servant and ass at the bottom of the hill (Gen. 22.5), so when we are to worship God this day, we must leave all secular business behind. And as Joseph, when he would speak with his brethren, thrust out the Egyptians, so when we would have converse with God this day, we must thrust out all earthly employments. Though works of necessity may be done and works of charity (for God will have mercy, and not sacrifice), yet in other cases we must cease from all worldly negotiations. It is observable concerning Mary Magdalene that she refused to anoint Christ's dead body on the Sabbath day (Luk 23.26). She had before prepared her ointment, but came not to the sepulchre till the Sabbath was past. She rested that day from civil work, though it were a commendable and glorious work, the anointing of Christ's dead body.
When this blessed day approacheth, we must lift up our hearts in thankfulness to GOd that He hath put another price into our hand for the gaining of heavenly wisdom. These are our spiritual harvest days. Now the wind of God's Spirit blows upon the sails of our affections and we may be much furthered on in our heavenly voyage. Christian, lift up thy heart to God in thankfulness that He hath given thee another golden season, and be sure thou improve it [use it profitably]; it may be the last. Seasons of grace are not like the tide; if a man misseth one tide, he may have another.
This day approaching, we must in the morning dress and fit our souls for the receiving of the Word. The people of Israel must wash their garments before the law was delivered to them. Our hearts must be washed by prayer and repentance, the oracles of God being to be delivered to us.
And being met together, we must set ourselves as in the presence of God with seriousness and delight to hear God's sacred Word. Take heed of distractions which fly-blow our duties.
We must labour to be bettered by every Sabbath; where the Lord lays our cost, He looks for fruit. Fresh anointings of God are to be thirsted after, and new cubits to be added to our spiritual stature. We must not be like the salamander, which lives in the fire but is never the hotter. Christians should on these days aspire after communion with discoveries of His love in Chirst. In short, we should do on a Sabbath as Moses: he ascended the mount that he might have a sight of God.
We must dedicate the whole day tot God. Under the law a single sacrifice was appointed for other days of the week, but two lambs were to be offered upon the Sabbath. All this day must be spent with God; He must have worship in public, and when we come home, He must have family worship. Many leave all their religion at church (as I have seen some do their Bibles), not hallowing God's name in their own houses. 'Will a man rob God?' (Mal. 3.8). When men pretend to worship God in the temple, but cut Him short of family and closet-duties on a Sabbath, this is to rob God, and steal a part of His day from Him.
Good reason we should concescrate the whole Sabbath to God, and give Him double devotion, for God doubles His blessings upon us this day. As the manna did rain twice as much on the sixth day as any of the other days, so the manna of spiritual blessings falls twice as much on the Sabbath day as any other.
We must rejoice in this day, as being a day wherin we enjoy much of God's presence. 'Abraham saw My day and rejoiced' (John 8. 56); so when we see a Sabbath day coming, we should rejoice. The Protestants in France [the Huguenots] called their church paradise, because there they met with God. The Jews called the Sabbath the desire of days. Thou shall 'call the Sabbath a delight' (Isa. 58.13). This we should look upon as the best day, as the queen of days, crowned with a blessing. 'This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it' (Ps. 118.24). He hath made all the days, but hath sanctified this. We should look upon this day as a spiritual mart for our souls, wherein we have holy commerce and traffic with God. This day of rest is the beginning of an eternal rest. This day God sets open the 'pool of Bethesda' in which those waters flow that refresh the broken in heart. And shall not we call this day a delight? The Jews on the Sabbath laid aside their sackcloth and mourning.
This is in a right manner to sanctify a duty (i.e. a religious observance), and it is a duty wherein Chritians must excite and offer violence to themselvers.
Above all others, how well doth it become those into whose hands God hath put the power of magistracy, to show forth holy violence in causing the Lord's day to be strictly observed? What a rare pattern hath Nehemiah set all good magistrates. 'In those days saw I in Judah some treading wine presses on the Sabbath, and bringing in sheaves... and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the Sabbath day; and I testified against them in the day wherein they sold victuals' (Neh. 13.15) 'Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the Sabbath day? (v. 17) How dare ye infringe the command, and make a false entry upon God's freehold? My lord, your procamation for the pious observation of the Sabbath and your punitive acts upon some offenders, have given a public testimony of your zeal for this day. The keeping up the honour of the Sabbath will much keep up your magisterial honour* (*This book was dedicated to the then Lord Mayor of London)
De halve waarheid is funester dan de onjuistheid (E. von Feuchtersieben)

Joannah
Berichten: 2544
Lid geworden op: 14 Okt 2009, 16:01

Re: Call the Sabbath a Delight!

Berichtdoor Joannah » 29 Dec 2009, 23:14

Bert Mulder schreef:
Welcome to our special issue on the Lord’s Day. The Old Testament name Sabbath emphasizes the truth that we are to rest in the mighty works of God, notably our salvation sealed in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The New Testament name Lord’s Day emphasizes that Jesus Christ is Lord of the entire Sabbath, and He determines what is right for the day. Far greater sorrow we have at the realization of how little regard we believers have for it.

May God be pleased by this special issue to instruct, encourage, admonish us all in the profitable use of His day.

A hearty thanks to our regular writers as well as the special contributors, Rev. Mark Shand and Mrs. Michael Bosveld.


Read all of this special issue of the Standard Bearer here:

http://www.rfpa.org/sb/TheStandardBeare ... OCValue4=0


Every time the New Testament mentions the Lord's Day, it is Judgement Day, the day the Lord returns.
Our "Sunday" is called first day of the week, in the bible.
There has been a contest and one could win a lot of money, if there was any proof of a legitimate change from saterday(sabbath)to sunday, written in the bible.
It could not be found.
Of course not, Gods laws don't change, he is UNCHANGEABLE.
Something as vast as a "creation ordinance" would never change without one single clear confirming explanaton.We can't see the Nicea-assembly as a late correction, as if the apostles had forgotten something.....Read well, in the next quoted text , by saying "...as sabbath and as the Lords day, the writer puts the two totally different days with different functions together as one.

"This special day, established by God as a creation ordinance, is one that even the ungodly cannot ignore totally. And yet, in both respects—as Sabbath and as the Lord’s Day"..—God’s law is trampled underfoot. That the unbelieving and ungodly do so is to be expected. What especially grieves God’s people is the sight of family members and churchgoers desecrating this day.'
Why do we spend money we don’t have on things we don’t need to create impressions that don’t last on people we don’t care about ?

albion
Berichten: 7514
Lid geworden op: 27 Dec 2007, 19:23
Locatie: ergens in nederland

Re: Call the Sabbath a Delight!

Berichtdoor albion » 30 Dec 2009, 00:09

Joannah schreef:
Bert Mulder schreef:
Welcome to our special issue on the Lord’s Day. The Old Testament name Sabbath emphasizes the truth that we are to rest in the mighty works of God, notably our salvation sealed in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The New Testament name Lord’s Day emphasizes that Jesus Christ is Lord of the entire Sabbath, and He determines what is right for the day. Far greater sorrow we have at the realization of how little regard we believers have for it.

May God be pleased by this special issue to instruct, encourage, admonish us all in the profitable use of His day.

A hearty thanks to our regular writers as well as the special contributors, Rev. Mark Shand and Mrs. Michael Bosveld.


Read all of this special issue of the Standard Bearer here:

http://www.rfpa.org/sb/TheStandardBeare ... OCValue4=0



Every time the New Testament mentions the Lord's Day, it is Judgement Day, the day the Lord returns.
Our "Sunday" is called first day of the week, in the bible.
There has been a contest and one could win a lot of money, if there was any proof of a legitimate change from saterday(sabbath)to sunday, written in the bible.
It could not be found.
Of course not, Gods laws don't change, he is UNCHANGEABLE.
Something as vast as a "creation ordinance" would never change without one single clear confirming explanaton.We can't see the Nicea-assembly as a late correction, as if the apostles had forgotten something.....Read well, in the next quoted text , by saying "...as sabbath and as the Lords day, the writer puts the two totally different days with different functions together as one.

"This special day, established by God as a creation ordinance, is one that even the ungodly cannot ignore totally. And yet, in both respects—as Sabbath and as the Lord’s Day"..—God’s law is trampled underfoot. That the unbelieving and ungodly do so is to be expected. What especially grieves God’s people is the sight of family members and churchgoers desecrating this day.'


Did you read the quotation I copied from Watson? I think he expressed why our Lord's day is the first day of the week.
De halve waarheid is funester dan de onjuistheid (E. von Feuchtersieben)

Zonderling
Berichten: 4330
Lid geworden op: 19 Nov 2005, 13:31

Re: Call the Sabbath a Delight!

Berichtdoor Zonderling » 30 Dec 2009, 00:16

Joannah schreef:Every time the New Testament mentions the Lord's Day, it is Judgement Day, the day the Lord returns.

There is a great difference between 'Day of the Lord' (he hemera tou Kuriou) and 'Lords Day' (he Kurakè hemera).
Just the difference in language in Scripture between both demonstrates these are two different things.

Our "Sunday" is called first day of the week, in the bible.

Indeed, and never is spoken about the second day, the third day, the fourth day and so on. Remarkable. Or not?

There has been a contest and one could win a lot of money, if there was any proof of a legitimate change from saterday(sabbath)to sunday, written in the bible. It could not be found.

It could be found, it was already found, several books in the Dutch en English language (for example of Koelman, Owen, Hoornbeeck, and so on) show this.

See for more information in the several Duth topics about the Lord's day / Sunday / Sabbat.

Joannah
Berichten: 2544
Lid geworden op: 14 Okt 2009, 16:01

Re: Call the Sabbath a Delight!

Berichtdoor Joannah » 30 Dec 2009, 09:12

When Jesus preached, he insisted He hadn't come to change the Law.He Himself kept the sabbath and his apostels preached on sabbath, as we can read in many different letters in Acts.
So to keep holy the first day of the week, is not scriptural.
"Take which you will, either the Fathers or the moderns, and we shall find no Lord's Day instituted by any apostolical mandate, no Sabbath set on foot by them on the first day of the week"
[P. Heylyn: History of the Sabbath]

"... the transference to [Sunday] of the sabbatical obligation established by the promulgation of the 4th commandment has no basis whatever either in Holy Scripture or in Christian antiquity" [Wm Smith: Dictionary of Christian Antiquity]

The bible speaks of the first day of the week, here and there, but even more of the sabbath.
It never says this first day of the week IS NOW the sabbath, there remains a big difference.
This is what the catholics say:"They [Roman Catholics] They refer to the Sabbath-day as having been changed into the Lord's Day, contrary to the Decalog, as it seems. Neither is there any example whereof they make more than concerning the changing of the Sabbath-day. Great, say they, is the power of the Church, since it has dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments!"
Augsburg Confession of Faith, art. 28; written by Melanchthon and approved by Martin Luther, 1530; http://www.iclnet.org

The only reason we could assume that we don't have to keep the sabbath(saturday), is because the apostles wrote, that we gentiles are excempt from this law.
But that is not a reason to install our own new holy day (sunday)and keep that as a sabbath...
To cut a long story short, the sabbath of gen 2:1-3 is an unchangeable eternal ordinance of our Creator, not to be changed by anybody.
Which day is Jesaia writing about in jes 66:23?
This is a future- event.
I am convinced that the biblical holy sabbath on saterday shall be restored.

PS:
the conceiled forummers, mentioned by JVDG, are present in full force.
as I see that this subject has been viewed almost 600 times, and only 4 have added their opinion.
Why do we spend money we don’t have on things we don’t need to create impressions that don’t last on people we don’t care about ?

Zonderling
Berichten: 4330
Lid geworden op: 19 Nov 2005, 13:31

Re: Call the Sabbath a Delight!

Berichtdoor Zonderling » 30 Dec 2009, 09:26

Joannah schreef:When Jesus preached, he insisted He hadn't come to change the Law.He Himself kept the sabbath and his apostels preached on sabbath, as we can read in many different letters in Acts.
So to keep holy the first day of the week, is not scriptural.
"Take which you will, either the Fathers or the moderns, and we shall find no Lord's Day instituted by any apostolical mandate, no Sabbath set on foot by them on the first day of the week"
[P. Heylyn: History of the Sabbath]


- The resurrection took place on the first day of the week and the first four books of the NT Scipture show this as important for us to know.
- Jesus appeared to his disciples when they all were gathered, both times on sunday (Joh. 20:19, 26).
- The disciples came together on the first day of the week (Hand. 20:7).
- John mentions the Lord's day (not 'Day of the Lord' as in Old Testament Scripture!) in Openb. 1:10.
- The old church from Ignatius (died about 110) speak about The Lord's day (as sunday). All centuries this goes on, never there was a synod to change the day, but always from the apostle times the first day of the week was in place.

The 4th commandment is everlasting because the 7-day cycle is continued. However the exact day of the commandment has been changed following both the Lord Himself (see above) as the apostles and disciples of the first century.

Joannah
Berichten: 2544
Lid geworden op: 14 Okt 2009, 16:01

Re: Call the Sabbath a Delight!

Berichtdoor Joannah » 30 Dec 2009, 10:09

Zonderling schreef:
Joannah schreef:When Jesus preached, he insisted He hadn't come to change the Law.He Himself kept the sabbath and his apostels preached on sabbath, as we can read in many different letters in Acts.
So to keep holy the first day of the week, is not scriptural.
"Take which you will, either the Fathers or the moderns, and we shall find no Lord's Day instituted by any apostolical mandate, no Sabbath set on foot by them on the first day of the week"
[P. Heylyn: History of the Sabbath]


- The resurrection took place on the first day of the week and the first four books of the NT Scipture show this as important for us to know.
but it doesn't say that this must now become the new sabbath

- Jesus appeared to his disciples when they all were gathered, both times on sunday (Joh. 20:19, 26).
The apostles never preaches on sundays, but on sabbaths, this is mentioned in ACTS at least 10 times

- The disciples came together on the first day of the week (Hand. 20:7).
they came together every day, and "breaking the bread" means eating. even if it was as a rememberance of the resurrection, it still doesn't change the eternal law of sabbath, Jesus did NOT come to change the Law.
And whoever would addt o it, or substract from it, shall be called very small in the Kingdom./b]

- John mentions the Lord's day (not 'Day of the Lord' as in Old Testament Scripture!) in Openb. 1:10.
[b] beg to differ, after all it is totally iirrelevant and not in line with the subject of this chapter, the Book of Revelation is all about the Lords Day, Judgement Day, when He returns, John was taken to this day in his spirit.

- The old church from Ignatius (died about 110) speak about The Lord's day (as sunday). All centuries this goes on, never there was a synod to change the day, but always from the apostle times the first day of the week was in place.

The 4th commandment is everlasting because the 7-day cycle is continued. However the exact day of the commandment has been changed following both the Lord Himself (see above) as the apostles and disciples of the first century.
I do not see that the Lord Himself has changed the the commandment, Again, "I have not come to change the Law, I am also Lord of the Sabbath)
the apostles were always preaching on sabbaths in Acts, wherever they were, where do you read that they were preaching on the first day, or on the Lord's day for that matter???
Why do we spend money we don’t have on things we don’t need to create impressions that don’t last on people we don’t care about ?

Zonderling
Berichten: 4330
Lid geworden op: 19 Nov 2005, 13:31

Re: Call the Sabbath a Delight!

Berichtdoor Zonderling » 30 Dec 2009, 11:02

The apostles only were preaching on the Sabbat in the Jewish synagoge.

Paul was preaching on the first day of the week in the christian assembly Hand. 20:6, 7.
'breaking the bread' doesn't mean eating, but does mean the Lord's Supper which they held on the first day of the week.
Not only on that time, but always, otherwise it wasn't mentioned.
Why should the first day of the week here be mentioned?
In your opinion therefore is no reason at all, but you are wrong.

You have no answer on the difference between Lord's day (he kuriake hemera) and Day of the Lord (he hemera tou Kuriou). Just the word 'kuriakè' shows us this has a different meaning. It refers to Jesus Christ in the same way as in the expressions Lord's supper and Lord's prayer.

Joannah
Berichten: 2544
Lid geworden op: 14 Okt 2009, 16:01

Re: Call the Sabbath a Delight!

Berichtdoor Joannah » 02 Jan 2010, 13:47

Zonderling schreef:The apostles only were preaching on the Sabbat in the Jewish synagoge.
Acts 4:18 EVERY sabbath! and to Jews AND Greeks.
Also Acts 13:14, 42-44.

[Paul was preaching on the first day of the week in the christian assembly Hand. 20:6, 7./quote]Paul preached for months on end, day after day. (Acts 19:8)
'breaking the bread' doesn't mean eating, but does mean the Lord's Supper which they held on the first day of the week.
Not only on that time, but always, otherwise it wasn't mentioned.
Why should the first day of the week here be mentioned?
In your opinion therefore is no reason at all, but you are wrong.

You have no answer on the difference between Lord's day (he kuriake hemera) and Day of the Lord (he hemera tou Kuriou). Just the word 'kuriakè' shows us this has a different meaning. It refers to Jesus Christ in the same way as in the expressions Lord's supper and Lord's prayer.

And the Lord's day is Judgement Day.Or Sabbath, the only day that got a name, others were all numbered."Jesus says: I am Lord of the sabbath.
Why do we spend money we don’t have on things we don’t need to create impressions that don’t last on people we don’t care about ?

Zonderling
Berichten: 4330
Lid geworden op: 19 Nov 2005, 13:31

Re: Call the Sabbath a Delight!

Berichtdoor Zonderling » 02 Jan 2010, 19:25

Joannah,

You don't really answer on several arguments.

Furthermore, in Acts 4:18 nothing is said about sabbat.
Indeed in Acts 13:14, 44 Paul preached op sabbat, first to the Jews, the next time to all the people of the city.

However, I remembered that in Acts 20:6,7 in the christian assembly the Lord's Supper was held on the first day of the week and Paul preached also on that day. Why is the first day of the week mentioned, what was the reason to this? That's the issue to answer.

About Rev. 1:10 I already said twice that the Greek expression is different. So it has also a different meaning. You can repeat another opinion, but you don't show any arguments or evidence. Is this the case then you can better stop. This is a discussion site, not a site to neglect alle the answers of your opponent.

Joannah
Berichten: 2544
Lid geworden op: 14 Okt 2009, 16:01

Re: Call the Sabbath a Delight!

Berichtdoor Joannah » 02 Jan 2010, 21:40

Zonderling schreef:Joannah,

You don't really answer on several arguments.

Furthermore, in Acts 4:18 nothing is said about sabbat.
Indeed in Acts 13:14, 44 Paul preached op sabbat, first to the Jews, the next time to all the people of the city.

However, I remembered that in Acts 20:6,7 in the christian assembly the Lord's Supper was held on the first day of the week and Paul preached also on that day. Why is the first day of the week mentioned, what was the reason to this? That's the issue to answer.

About Rev. 1:10 I already said twice that the Greek expression is different. So it has also a different meaning. You can repeat another opinion, but you don't show any arguments or evidence. Is this the case then you can better stop. This is a discussion site, not a site to neglect alle the answers of your opponent.

I'm terribly sorry about the mistake, Acts 18:4 is the text I should have quoted.
Why do you say I am not reacting on arguments?
I quote bible verses, you quote assumptions.
Paul prayed on sabbaths so many times in Acts, at least on 20 different occasions it was mentioned.
Only once it was mentioned that he had a gathering on the first day (acts 20:7)but that could be after the sabbath, as he went on till deep in the night, and the new day starts around sunset in Israel, according to God's Laws and times , which were all also changed by the Roman Catholic Church)This special gathering was because he was leaving the next day !!!)
Never did he preach and pray on "the first day" or "the day of the Lord".
This means Judgement day or sabbath, never the sunday.
You probably also deny the fact that Pesach is always followed by a high sabbath and that there weren't 2 sabbaths in the week Jesus was the Lam.
Do you really not see the line between the old testament's feasts (Lev 23) and the fulfillment of the law and these high sabbaths in the new testament?
(Acts 2:1.talks about the fulfillment of Pentecost))
A small amount of Jews is said to always remain true to His Word, why don't they see the Lord's day as being sunday?
For something as big as this, the bible wouldn't have been vague, but very clear.I prefer to stick to the unchangeable God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whose laws are eternal.
And please don't judge, we are not supposed to judge one another over days. as long as it is to His honour.but for me sabbath(saturday)the seventh day remains His Holy day.The first day was never set apart or declared holy.Jesus came to fullfill the Law, not change it!!
Why do we spend money we don’t have on things we don’t need to create impressions that don’t last on people we don’t care about ?

Zonderling
Berichten: 4330
Lid geworden op: 19 Nov 2005, 13:31

Re: Call the Sabbath a Delight!

Berichtdoor Zonderling » 02 Jan 2010, 22:31

Joannah schreef:
Zonderling schreef:Joannah,

You don't really answer on several arguments.

Furthermore, in Acts 4:18 nothing is said about sabbat.
Indeed in Acts 13:14, 44 Paul preached op sabbat, first to the Jews, the next time to all the people of the city.

However, I remembered that in Acts 20:6,7 in the christian assembly the Lord's Supper was held on the first day of the week and Paul preached also on that day. Why is the first day of the week mentioned, what was the reason to this? That's the issue to answer.

About Rev. 1:10 I already said twice that the Greek expression is different. So it has also a different meaning. You can repeat another opinion, but you don't show any arguments or evidence. Is this the case then you can better stop. This is a discussion site, not a site to neglect alle the answers of your opponent.

I'm terribly sorry about the mistake, Acts 18:4 is the text I should have quoted.
Why do you say I am not reacting on arguments?


- You didn't react on the first day passage in Acts 20:6, 7 until now.
- You didn't react on the Greek term in Rev. 1:10 'Lord's Day' which is in Greek different of 'Day of the Lord' = Judgment Day

I quote bible verses, you quote assumptions.

Really?

Paul prayed on sabbaths so many times in Acts, at least on 20 different occasions it was mentioned.

I already said this was always in the context of the Jews.

Only once it was mentioned that he had a gathering on the first day (acts 20:7)but that could be after the sabbath, as he went on till deep in the night, and the new day starts around sunset in Israel, according to God's Laws and times , which were all also changed by the Roman Catholic Church)This special gathering was because he was leaving the next day !!!)
Never did he preach and pray on "the first day" or "the day of the Lord".

Indeed once, but important, because this was in the christian assembly, not with the Jews.
Again YOU DON'T EXPLAIN WHY here the first day of the week is mentioned.
Indeed Paul departed next day, but was it so important that he departed on Monday that the first day of the week should be mentioned? Again I say, there is no answer for you WHY the first day of the week is mentioned otherwise than there is a special reason for this. And of course this special reason is there.
Please come now with a good reason the first day of the week is mentioned here. But you can't.

You say Paul preached in the evening so it was already monday according to God's laws and times.
However, John the apostle himself speaks also of the evening AS THE SAME DAY (first day of the week, see John 20:19). So not the Roman Catholic Church changed this, but the Word of God in the New Testament shows us that the evening now should be reckoned to the day before.

This means Judgement day or sabbath, never the sunday.

Again no answer about the difference in the Greek term between Lord's Day and Day of the Lord. The Greek term in Rev. 1:10 is NEVER used in the (Greek) Old Testament. You can better stop with repeating the same words without any argument.

You probably also deny the fact that Pesach is always followed by a high sabbath and that there weren't 2 sabbaths in the week Jesus was the Lam.

Would you say that the resurrection didn't take place on the first day!? You can read what I have written about this in the Dutch topic. I don't like to discuss this again.

The first day was never set apart or declared holy.Jesus came to fullfill the Law, not change it!!

All ceremonies are taken away. All OT feast have been stopped.
The fourth commandment is not ceremonial, but only the day is ceremonial. It has been changed from the zeventh day to the first.

Alexander CD
Berichten: 1063
Lid geworden op: 13 Sep 2008, 18:44

Re: Call the Sabbath a Delight!

Berichtdoor Alexander CD » 02 Jan 2010, 22:48

Joannah schreef:And please don't judge, we are not supposed to judge one another over days. as long as it is to His honour.but for me sabbath(saturday)the seventh day remains His Holy day.The first day was never set apart or declared holy.Jesus came to fullfill the Law, not change it!!


Joannah,there are two important things to consider. First, the Sabbath was given to Israel as the "sign" or "token" of the everlasting Covenant between God and His people. This in itself means that the sign is inextricably connected with Christ. This sign was instituted that God's people would remember that it was not themselves, but the Lord who made them a righteous (Exodus 31:13-16) people and brought them out of the bondage of Egypt (Deuteronomy 5:13-15). Second, the Sabbath was instituted for God's people as a Holy day of rest from their labors (Exodus 31:17), to commemorate God's rest from His work of creation. In this sign, they were to know that all their works and labors w ere to cease.

Matthew 5:17
• "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
The Old Testament signs and ceremonial laws being completed or fulfilled in Christ is what so many theologians today do not fully understand. Christ didn't do away with the old testament precepts, in actuality He was that true to which those laws pointed. Luke 24:44
• "And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."
Fulfilling these Old Covenant laws means that we now celebrate Christ (the Passover Lamb) by the New Covenant sign, which is the communion service. We do this in remembrance of his broken body. In other words, we now recognize that the law of Moses commanding the actual sacrifice of an animal, was merely a temporary Old Testament sign pointing to the real shedding of blood and the true sacrifice of God's Lamb. So with the coming of the real, our eyes are upon Him and not any longer upon the sign preceding Him. The communion is a sign now looking backward to the broken body of Christ. The Old Testament sign of the Passover sacrifice looked forward to the broken body of Christ. The method of observance has changed, but the true observance has not.
Likewise the law of the Gifts, the Temple, the Scapegoat, the Altar, the High Priest, the Sabbath, the Atonement, etc., they were all mere shadows of the true. They were not the true, but were shadow thereof. Some people want to cling to the shadow, not discerning the difference. But we can see this difference illustrated in the book of Hebrews:
Hebrews 8:2-5
• A Minister of the Sanctuary, and of the True Tabernacle, which the Lord pitched and not man.
• For every High Priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
• For if He were on earth, He should not be a Priest, seeing that there are Priests that offer gifts according to the law:
• Who serve unto the Example and a Shadow of heavenly things."
Hebrews 10:1-2
• "for the LAW having a Shadow of good things to come, and not the
• Very Image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect."
The Old Testament Sabbath law was a shadow, [skia], of good things to come in Christ, and were not the true or the real. Yes, they were God's laws that stand forever, but only in Christ can anyone keep them according to what was/is required. These passages in the book of Hebrews reveal to us just how the various signs and ceremonial laws of the Old Testament system of worship merely reflected a greater spiritual (and yet actual) fulfillment or completion in the coming Christ.
Colossians 2:16
• "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an Holy day, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath, which are a Shadow of things to come: but the body is of Christ!"
Here God tells us very plainly and "without ambiguity" that the old testament Sabbaths were a [skia] or shadow that prefigured a greater Sabbath that was to come, in the body of Christ. All those Old Testament laws that Moses instituted, like not eating unclean meats, the Holy days, the new moons, and the Sabbaths, were shadows looking forward to Christ, the true form. And right along with this list of ceremonial laws God puts the old testament Sabbaths, and says it was merely a 'sign' of things to come. And like all the other ceremonial signs, it would have it's substance, efficacy, and fulfillment in the body of Jesus Christ. We are not to be judged by any of these, as the law of keeping these is fulfilled in Christ. We would no more go back to observe the seventh day Sabbath today as we would go back to observing the Passover, the new moons, unclean meats, or of going to Jerusalem three times a year (Feast of Tabernacles, Passover, Weeks) to worship. Christ is that Sabbath of Rest that the children of God looked for, and He has come to give them that rest.
Matthew 11:28-30
• "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
• Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
• For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
Our own labors are burdensome, but the work we receive from Christ is not burdensome, but light. Because Christ did all the labor for us, and we rest in Him. When we work six days and rest on the seventh (Sunday), we bear witness to the Sabbath cycle ordained by God. And yet there is a greater rest that is being prepared in heaven for those with Christ as their Sabbath. It is not observance of the seventh day Sabbath, but Christ alone who can give us this rest.

Alexander CD
Berichten: 1063
Lid geworden op: 13 Sep 2008, 18:44

Re: Call the Sabbath a Delight!

Berichtdoor Alexander CD » 02 Jan 2010, 23:15

Zonderling schreef:The fourth commandment is not ceremonial, but only the day is ceremonial. It has been changed from the zeventh day to the first.


The fourth commandment is in part ceremonial ( because it points to Christ) and in part moral.


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