No faith without believing

[memento]

In one of the topics on this forum, someone made the distinction between faith (habitus) and believing (actus). In my opinion it is impossible to have faith, without actually believing.

[Corydoras]

In one of the topics on this forum, someone made the distinction between faith (habitus) and believing (actus). In my opinion it is impossible to have faith, without actually believing.

Always or the first time?

[memento]

Always

[cannabis]

As long as we are clear about the distinction between spiritual life and faith.

Actually, I believe there can be faith without it being in exercise. When a saint doubts, does he still have faith? Is his faith taken from him again? But does he believe?

[Afgewezen]

As long as we are clear about the distinction between spiritual life and faith.

Actually, I believe there can be faith without it being in exercise. When a saint doubts, does he still have faith? Is his faith taken from him again? But does he believe?

Although he doubts, he still believes. But his faith is 'small' or 'weak'.

[ndonselaar]

De onderscheiding 'habitus' en 'actus' boeit mij niet zo. Het kan misschien best nuttig zijn in een discussie, maar voor de rest laat ik het onderscheid maar liever rusten.

De Schrift spreekt over het geloof ín oefening. Het beoefende geloof kan aangevochten, bestreden, bekampt worden, maar de oefeningen van het geloof blijven er, hoe zwak ook.

Wat is nu de oefening van het geloof? Dat is een mysterie. Het laat zich niet vangen in woorden, het laat zich alleen beleven. Het geloof kent zijn Nochtans. Ook als alles tegen lijkt te zitten; het klamtp zich nochtans vast aan Hem in Zijn Woord. We kunnen als Heman over de wereld gaan, als een doodbrakende, maar nochtans: de God mijns heils. Dit is nu het mysterie van het geloof. Niet een innerlijke verandering, niet een kenmerk, nee het geloof klampt zich vast aan Hem buiten ons. Heerlijk Evangelie, ondanks mijn zonde, ondanks mijn vlees, nochtans rechtvaardig in Hem.

[Kaw]

I believe that the bible does not speak about habitus and actus, but about dead and alive faith. (Jac. 2) The fruits ( :mrgreen: I'm sorry for my undutchable english ) of faith are good works and love to God and all humans, the will to live to the book of laws and sorrow about the sins.

[IJsklontje]

Sometimes you can have so much doubts, or this life is so important for you, that you don't have an experience of faith. But what are the differences between 'faith' and 'believing'? I think that faith is always sure, based in God. Believing is your own experience. If my defenitions are right, you can have faith without believing.

[plebe]

Sometimes you can have so much doubts, or this life is so important for you, that you don't have an experience of faith. But what are the differences between 'faith' and 'believing'? I think that faith is always sure, based in God. Believing is your own experience. If my defenitions are right, you can have faith without believing.

Da's zo klaar als een klontje!

[memento]

I think that trusting God is the essence of faith, en thus of believing. And no mather how much doubt, how much slumbering, how much falling in sin, still there always remains in the believer that spark that cannot stop trusting God. Oh, even if it had sinned so much, if it had forgotten God for a moment, even if it had been doubting, it always comes back to God, begging for forgiveness...

[Pim]

May I refer to our Heidelberger Cathechismus?

Vr.21. Wat is een waar geloof?
Antw. Een waar geloof is niet alleen een stellig weten of kennis, waardoor ik alles voor waarachtig houd, wat ons God in Zijn Woord geopenbaard heeft, maar ook een vast vertrouwen, hetwelk de Heilige Geest door het Evangelie in mijn hart werkt, dat niet alleen anderen, maar ook mij vergeving der zonden, eeuwige gerechtigheid en zaligheid van God geschonken is, uit louter genade, alleen om der verdienste van Christus wil.

And also (in my opinion)

Wat is een zwak waar geloof?
Antw. Een waar geloof is niet alleen een zwak stellig weten of kennis, waardoor ik alles voor waarachtig houd, wat ons God in Zijn Woord geopenbaard heeft, maar ook een zwak vast vertrouwen, hetwelk de Heilige Geest door het Evangelie in mijn hart werkt, dat niet alleen anderen, maar ook mij vergeving der zonden, eeuwige gerechtigheid en zaligheid van God geschonken is, uit louter genade, alleen om der verdienste van Christus wil.

So, faith concerns knowledge and trust. A weak faith concerns still a weak knowledge and a weak trust.

[Kaw]

Sometimes you can have so much doubts, or this life is so important for you, that you don't have an experience of faith. But what are the differences between 'faith' and 'believing'? I think that faith is always sure, based in God. Believing is your own experience. If my defenitions are right, you can have faith without believing.

Well then your faith is based on trust like Abraham walking towards Kanaan, or Israel walking around the walls of Jericho, or the man from the army who had to go to the dirty river, or the people following Jesus hoping to get rid of their problems, or me walking the ways of life following and listening to a God i can't see.
Romans 5 says that hope and trust will make someone's experiences (sorry, cant find the good words) that God exists and that He is a rewarder for them who seek Him in faith.

[cannabis]

There still seems to be a confusing of faith with believing. Believing is something you do. Faith is something you have, that is given to you. Faith is an ability, a capacity to do something. Hence I compared faith to an eye, and believing to seeing. You may have weak eyes and see dimly, or it may be dark and you see nothing (you cannot believe). Yet you can still have faith. A regenerated sinner is never without faith, or love, for these are essential to spiritual life itself.

m.w.

[Afgewezen]

There still seems to be a confusing of faith with believing. Believing is something you do. Faith is something you have, that is given to you. Faith is an ability, a capacity to do something. Hence I compared faith to an eye, and believing to seeing. You may have weak eyes and see dimly, or it may be dark and you see nothing (you cannot believe). Yet you can still have faith. A regenerated sinner is never without faith, or love, for these are essential to spiritual life itself.

m.w.

What do you mean with this? Why do you think it is so very important? As I said, the Scripture doesn't speak about faith in this way and isn't interested in these distinctions.

[Arrow]

There still seems to be a confusing of faith with believing. Believing is something you do. Faith is something you have, that is given to you. Faith is an ability, a capacity to do something. Hence I compared faith to an eye, and believing to seeing. You may have weak eyes and see dimly, or it may be dark and you see nothing (you cannot believe). Yet you can still have faith. A regenerated sinner is never without faith, or love, for these are essential to spiritual life itself.

m.w.

Even if your eyes are closed or you are in the dark (literally), they are functioning. Maybe you don't experience the effects you want to experience. So it is with faith: if you have it, it is functioning, but not always the way it should.