Re: Column – De kredietcrisis
Geplaatst: 23 sep 2008, 10:55
Column – De kredietcrisis
Pagina 7 van 54
Re: Column – De kredietcrisis
Geplaatst: 23 sep 2008, 18:40
Refdag schreef:Bidstond door predikanten op Wall Street
22-09-2008 12:49 | Redactie economie
NEW YORK - Predikanten van verschillende kerken in en om New York hebben vorige week vanwege de financiële crisis op Wall Street bidstonden belegd. Dit meldt het magazine Christianity Today.
De bijeenkomsten begonnen vorige week maandag. Verschillende bankiers vroegen aan de predikanten van hun kerk om met hen te bidden. Later in de week werden bidstonden gehouden bij financiële instellingen als Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs en Morgan Stanley.
Dominee Mac Pier van de New York Leadership bad met de bankiers. „Ik hoop dat God hen wil steunen.” Volgens Pier waren de mensen radeloos. „Ik heb nog nooit volwassen mannen zo horen huilen. De crisis was ongrijpbaar omdat het zo snel ging.”
Veel kerken in en om New York rapporteren teruglopende inkomsten vanwege de financiële problemen in de Verenigde Staten. Wilson Goode, voormalig burgemeester van Philadelphia, zegt in Christianity Today dat er „op lange termijn minder geld beschikbaar is voor religieuze instellingen en sociale programma’s.”
Re: Column – De kredietcrisis
Geplaatst: 23 sep 2008, 21:43
*** A short explanation of how we got to where we are
Today's banking crisis is the THIRD trillion dollar plus US-caused financial meltdown in the last twenty years.
Each one of these crises came into being through the same basic mechanism...the fraudulent over-valuing of financial assets by Wall Street - with a "wink and a nod" (and sometimes a lot more) from the White House and Congress.
The fraudulently valued assets stimulate the economy, impart the illusion of health and then, inevitably, the fraud goes too far and the whole house of card comes painfully crashing back to earth.
The three trillion dollar plus frauds were:
Fraud #1: The so-called "Savings and Loan Crisis" of the late 80s
Fraud #2: The so-called "Tech Bubble" of the late 90s
Fraud #3: The so-called "Credit Crisis" of today
*** How the scam works
The mechanism of these frauds is simplicity itself...
...Take a shaky financial asset and blow up its value and then sell as much of it as you can.
In the "Savings and Loan Crisis," the instrument was junk bonds.
In the "Tech Bubble" it was Internet stocks.
In the "Credit Crisis" it was individual mortgages collected into pools and then re-sold to investors.
In each case, normal, well established "bread and butter"
financial principles were consciously thrown away by Wall Street with no hint of protest from federal regulators.
***The "Savings and Loan Crisis" dissected
Junk bonds caused the Saving and Loan crisis which resulted in the US taking over the assets of hundreds of banks and selling them back over time to the marketplace
at fire sale prices.
Junk bonds, which caused the "Savings and Loan Crisis" were shaky bonds that were pumped up by deliberate misrepresentation and what I call "staged dealing."
Bonds get their value from two things: the amount of interest they pay and how safe they are.
"Junk" bonds have to pay higher interest because they are less safe. Therefore, until the "Savings and Loan Crisis," savings and loan banks banks were not allowed by law to buy them and call them assets.
Reagan/Bush changed all this and then a group of Wall Street fraudsters used the new loophole to kick off an orgy of junk bond creation and junk bond selling to banks and insurance companies.
The crooks would deal the junk bonds back and forth amongst themselves thereby establishing their "value"
and then they'd sell them to outsiders. The bonds then became "assets" which could be borrowed against and leveraged to buy even more bonds.
When the bonds failed, the banks failed and in stepped the US government to "fix" the problem that it created at the cost of at least one trillion dollars to US tax payers.
Deja vu, eh?
***The "Tech Bubble" dissected
The instrument of fraud in the "Tech Bubble" was Internet stocks, start ups in particular.
A stock gets its value from the underlying company's sales, its growth and its overall prospects for the future.
Pre-tech bubble, companies used to have to prove themselves by being in existence for several years before they could be sold on major exchanges. That standard was thrown away during the tech bubble.
To pump of their values, the companies engaged in "staged dealing" just like the junk bond crooks.
Company #1 would "sell" 20 million dollars in banner ads to Company #2 which would in turn "sell" 20 million in banner ads to Company #1.
In fact, nobody sold anybody anything. Company #2 ran ads for Company #1 and billed it for them. Company #1 ran ads for Company #2 and billed for an equal amount.
These should have been called media trades not sales, but Wall Street was happy to claim them as legitimate cash sales and then use the sales numbers to fraudulently value these companies - many of them totally worthless - in the hundreds of millions and sometimes even the billions.
***The "Credit Crisis" dissected
By now, you see how the scheme works.
It's not complicated at all.
You take near worthless pieces of paper (junk bonds, stock of start up Internet companies, etc.) and declare them to be good as gold.
Then you create as many junk bonds and Internet start up stocks as you get and sell them as fast as you can.
In the case of our current crisis, the instrument of fraud was so-called sub-prime mortgages.
Previously, sub-prime mortgages had very little trading value.
Only people in the sub-prime industry itself dealt in them and for good reason. They're tricky to value and packed with financial peril.
But Wall Street changed all that.
Wall Street said: "If we take LOTS of these mortgages and assemble them into large pools and then slice and dice the pools in various ways, we can sell the slices to banks and other investors as AAA paper."
It sounds crazy, doesn't it?
If the underlying pieces of paper are garbage, how does assembling a whole bunch of garbage into one place make it "better?"
It doesn't, of course, and this is a principle even a three year old child can understand.
But greed and the need to pump up a shaky economy for propaganda purposes are two very strong motivators.
Banks created these mortgage pools, sold them to each other, and they by virtue of these "staged sales" declared them valuable.
Do you recognize the pattern now?
If you do, then you are now smarter than all the assembled j@ck@sses who do financial reporting because they apparently can't - or won't.
This is the THIRD trillion-dollar plus fraud driven financial meltdown in twenty years and apparently no one in the financial
news media can see how it happened.
***But there's more...
Junk bonds were mass manufactured as fast as the crooks could invent them. Ditto for Internet stocks.
But how did hundreds of billions of dollars worth of "toxic"
mortgages suddenly come into being?
Why did the mortgage industry change its lending standards so radically and so suddenly to make their creation possible?
And why did real estate lending regulators in all 50 states - because real estate lending is a STATE-level issue not a federal
- go along with it?
Here's where it gets very interesting...
The fact is state-level lending regulators were VERY concerned about what was going on. They have been for years.
And they not only expressed their concern clearly, they also took SERIOUS concerted legal action to stop lenders from making bad real estate loans to their citizens.
(Most of the sub-prime loans in the news so much today were designed to screw the people who borrowed the money and can rightly be called "predatory" loans.)
Guess who stopped the states from enforcing their own time-proven real estate lending laws and thus created the raw material that made the current "Credit Crisis" possible?
*** The trillion dollar plus question
If you're a US taxpayer, you're going to pay for this fraud so you might as well know who did it to you.
His initials are GB.
You know him well.
But perhaps more interesting is the name of the person who single-handedly rallied first state attorneys general and then fellow governors to fight the creation of these loans and who in the process became Public Enemy #1 to the Bush Administration...
His initials are ES.
If you follow "silly" US political scandals, you'll recognize his name instantly when you hear it.
And you will *finally* understand why he was quickly and permanently assassinated politically earlier this year.
Had ES been allowed to "live," he would have been in position to remind everyone every day of who made the current meltdown possible.
Instead, he was silenced very effectively. Not with a bullet in the back of the head, but the net effect was just the same.
So effective was his assassination that no one can even mention his name in connection with today's crisis without risking ridicule, or worse.
Last note:
The crisis this fraud has created is *exponentially* bigger than the S & L and Tech Bubble combined.
It's not going to be resolved by a quick "patch up" and will likely have the same impact on the current generation that the depression of the 1930s had on its parents, grandparents and great grandparents.
Today's banking crisis is the THIRD trillion dollar plus US-caused financial meltdown in the last twenty years.
Each one of these crises came into being through the same basic mechanism...the fraudulent over-valuing of financial assets by Wall Street - with a "wink and a nod" (and sometimes a lot more) from the White House and Congress.
The fraudulently valued assets stimulate the economy, impart the illusion of health and then, inevitably, the fraud goes too far and the whole house of card comes painfully crashing back to earth.
The three trillion dollar plus frauds were:
Fraud #1: The so-called "Savings and Loan Crisis" of the late 80s
Fraud #2: The so-called "Tech Bubble" of the late 90s
Fraud #3: The so-called "Credit Crisis" of today
*** How the scam works
The mechanism of these frauds is simplicity itself...
...Take a shaky financial asset and blow up its value and then sell as much of it as you can.
In the "Savings and Loan Crisis," the instrument was junk bonds.
In the "Tech Bubble" it was Internet stocks.
In the "Credit Crisis" it was individual mortgages collected into pools and then re-sold to investors.
In each case, normal, well established "bread and butter"
financial principles were consciously thrown away by Wall Street with no hint of protest from federal regulators.
***The "Savings and Loan Crisis" dissected
Junk bonds caused the Saving and Loan crisis which resulted in the US taking over the assets of hundreds of banks and selling them back over time to the marketplace
at fire sale prices.
Junk bonds, which caused the "Savings and Loan Crisis" were shaky bonds that were pumped up by deliberate misrepresentation and what I call "staged dealing."
Bonds get their value from two things: the amount of interest they pay and how safe they are.
"Junk" bonds have to pay higher interest because they are less safe. Therefore, until the "Savings and Loan Crisis," savings and loan banks banks were not allowed by law to buy them and call them assets.
Reagan/Bush changed all this and then a group of Wall Street fraudsters used the new loophole to kick off an orgy of junk bond creation and junk bond selling to banks and insurance companies.
The crooks would deal the junk bonds back and forth amongst themselves thereby establishing their "value"
and then they'd sell them to outsiders. The bonds then became "assets" which could be borrowed against and leveraged to buy even more bonds.
When the bonds failed, the banks failed and in stepped the US government to "fix" the problem that it created at the cost of at least one trillion dollars to US tax payers.
Deja vu, eh?
***The "Tech Bubble" dissected
The instrument of fraud in the "Tech Bubble" was Internet stocks, start ups in particular.
A stock gets its value from the underlying company's sales, its growth and its overall prospects for the future.
Pre-tech bubble, companies used to have to prove themselves by being in existence for several years before they could be sold on major exchanges. That standard was thrown away during the tech bubble.
To pump of their values, the companies engaged in "staged dealing" just like the junk bond crooks.
Company #1 would "sell" 20 million dollars in banner ads to Company #2 which would in turn "sell" 20 million in banner ads to Company #1.
In fact, nobody sold anybody anything. Company #2 ran ads for Company #1 and billed it for them. Company #1 ran ads for Company #2 and billed for an equal amount.
These should have been called media trades not sales, but Wall Street was happy to claim them as legitimate cash sales and then use the sales numbers to fraudulently value these companies - many of them totally worthless - in the hundreds of millions and sometimes even the billions.
***The "Credit Crisis" dissected
By now, you see how the scheme works.
It's not complicated at all.
You take near worthless pieces of paper (junk bonds, stock of start up Internet companies, etc.) and declare them to be good as gold.
Then you create as many junk bonds and Internet start up stocks as you get and sell them as fast as you can.
In the case of our current crisis, the instrument of fraud was so-called sub-prime mortgages.
Previously, sub-prime mortgages had very little trading value.
Only people in the sub-prime industry itself dealt in them and for good reason. They're tricky to value and packed with financial peril.
But Wall Street changed all that.
Wall Street said: "If we take LOTS of these mortgages and assemble them into large pools and then slice and dice the pools in various ways, we can sell the slices to banks and other investors as AAA paper."
It sounds crazy, doesn't it?
If the underlying pieces of paper are garbage, how does assembling a whole bunch of garbage into one place make it "better?"
It doesn't, of course, and this is a principle even a three year old child can understand.
But greed and the need to pump up a shaky economy for propaganda purposes are two very strong motivators.
Banks created these mortgage pools, sold them to each other, and they by virtue of these "staged sales" declared them valuable.
Do you recognize the pattern now?
If you do, then you are now smarter than all the assembled j@ck@sses who do financial reporting because they apparently can't - or won't.
This is the THIRD trillion-dollar plus fraud driven financial meltdown in twenty years and apparently no one in the financial
news media can see how it happened.
***But there's more...
Junk bonds were mass manufactured as fast as the crooks could invent them. Ditto for Internet stocks.
But how did hundreds of billions of dollars worth of "toxic"
mortgages suddenly come into being?
Why did the mortgage industry change its lending standards so radically and so suddenly to make their creation possible?
And why did real estate lending regulators in all 50 states - because real estate lending is a STATE-level issue not a federal
- go along with it?
Here's where it gets very interesting...
The fact is state-level lending regulators were VERY concerned about what was going on. They have been for years.
And they not only expressed their concern clearly, they also took SERIOUS concerted legal action to stop lenders from making bad real estate loans to their citizens.
(Most of the sub-prime loans in the news so much today were designed to screw the people who borrowed the money and can rightly be called "predatory" loans.)
Guess who stopped the states from enforcing their own time-proven real estate lending laws and thus created the raw material that made the current "Credit Crisis" possible?
*** The trillion dollar plus question
If you're a US taxpayer, you're going to pay for this fraud so you might as well know who did it to you.
His initials are GB.
You know him well.
But perhaps more interesting is the name of the person who single-handedly rallied first state attorneys general and then fellow governors to fight the creation of these loans and who in the process became Public Enemy #1 to the Bush Administration...
His initials are ES.
If you follow "silly" US political scandals, you'll recognize his name instantly when you hear it.
And you will *finally* understand why he was quickly and permanently assassinated politically earlier this year.
Had ES been allowed to "live," he would have been in position to remind everyone every day of who made the current meltdown possible.
Instead, he was silenced very effectively. Not with a bullet in the back of the head, but the net effect was just the same.
So effective was his assassination that no one can even mention his name in connection with today's crisis without risking ridicule, or worse.
Last note:
The crisis this fraud has created is *exponentially* bigger than the S & L and Tech Bubble combined.
It's not going to be resolved by a quick "patch up" and will likely have the same impact on the current generation that the depression of the 1930s had on its parents, grandparents and great grandparents.
Re: Column – De kredietcrisis
Geplaatst: 23 sep 2008, 23:05
Refo, hier is een engels deelforum voor. Is dus ondanks de inhoud, off-topic.
Re: Column – De kredietcrisis
Geplaatst: 23 sep 2008, 23:27
Sinds wanneer is iemand op RF off topic 
?
?Re: Column – De kredietcrisis
Geplaatst: 24 sep 2008, 20:53
Heel bizar!
Ariene schreef:Refdag schreef:Bidstond door predikanten op Wall Street
22-09-2008 12:49 | Redactie economie
NEW YORK - Predikanten van verschillende kerken in en om New York hebben vorige week vanwege de financiële crisis op Wall Street bidstonden belegd. Dit meldt het magazine Christianity Today.
De bijeenkomsten begonnen vorige week maandag. Verschillende bankiers vroegen aan de predikanten van hun kerk om met hen te bidden. Later in de week werden bidstonden gehouden bij financiële instellingen als Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs en Morgan Stanley.
Dominee Mac Pier van de New York Leadership bad met de bankiers. „Ik hoop dat God hen wil steunen.” Volgens Pier waren de mensen radeloos. „Ik heb nog nooit volwassen mannen zo horen huilen. De crisis was ongrijpbaar omdat het zo snel ging.”
Veel kerken in en om New York rapporteren teruglopende inkomsten vanwege de financiële problemen in de Verenigde Staten. Wilson Goode, voormalig burgemeester van Philadelphia, zegt in Christianity Today dat er „op lange termijn minder geld beschikbaar is voor religieuze instellingen en sociale programma’s.”
Re: Column – De kredietcrisis
Geplaatst: 24 sep 2008, 21:11
Vond ik ook.Gian schreef:Heel bizar!
Ariene schreef:Refdag schreef:Bidstond door predikanten op Wall Street
22-09-2008 12:49 | Redactie economie
NEW YORK - Predikanten van verschillende kerken in en om New York hebben vorige week vanwege de financiële crisis op Wall Street bidstonden belegd. Dit meldt het magazine Christianity Today.
De bijeenkomsten begonnen vorige week maandag. Verschillende bankiers vroegen aan de predikanten van hun kerk om met hen te bidden. Later in de week werden bidstonden gehouden bij financiële instellingen als Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs en Morgan Stanley.
Dominee Mac Pier van de New York Leadership bad met de bankiers. „Ik hoop dat God hen wil steunen.” Volgens Pier waren de mensen radeloos. „Ik heb nog nooit volwassen mannen zo horen huilen. De crisis was ongrijpbaar omdat het zo snel ging.”
Veel kerken in en om New York rapporteren teruglopende inkomsten vanwege de financiële problemen in de Verenigde Staten. Wilson Goode, voormalig burgemeester van Philadelphia, zegt in Christianity Today dat er „op lange termijn minder geld beschikbaar is voor religieuze instellingen en sociale programma’s.”
Het sterkt mij weer zo in het gevoel dat we God nodig hebben als het óns uitkomt.
Maar God wil aan Zíjn eer komen.
Re: Column – De kredietcrisis
Geplaatst: 24 sep 2008, 21:25
Ik mis de zak en het as. De droefheid naar God. Dit klinkt me toch als de droefheid om de gevolgen en het gebed om de gevolgen van de zonde weer op te heffen, terwijl de schuld niet in het geld zit, maar in het gedrag. Maar dat is een gedachte-omschakeling die schijnbaar bij de dominees niet op komt. Nog nooit mannen zo zien huilen? Hebben die dominees dan nooit ouders moeten troosten die een kind hebben verloren?Ariene schreef: Vond ik ook.
Het sterkt mij weer zo in het gevoel dat we God nodig hebben als het óns uitkomt.
Maar God wil aan Zíjn eer komen.
Re: Column – De kredietcrisis
Geplaatst: 24 sep 2008, 22:34
Dat kan toch ook positief zijn, God heeft veel mensen in een afhankelijke positie moeten brengen voordat ze Hem gingen zoeken, en dat sluit niet uit dat Hij geëert wordt?Het sterkt mij weer zo in het gevoel dat we God nodig hebben als het óns uitkomt.
Maar God wil aan Zíjn eer komen.
Dat zal niet altijd maar dat kan ook echte bekering brengen.
Je afhankelijk weten van Gods goedheid is een zegen.
Re: Column – De kredietcrisis
Geplaatst: 25 sep 2008, 07:38
Wellicht wat onhandig geformuleerd, maar ik bedoelde het volgende:Alexander CD schreef:Dat kan toch ook positief zijn, God heeft veel mensen in een afhankelijke positie moeten brengen voordat ze Hem gingen zoeken, en dat sluit niet uit dat Hij geëert wordt?Het sterkt mij weer zo in het gevoel dat we God nodig hebben als het óns uitkomt.
Maar God wil aan Zíjn eer komen.
Dat zal niet altijd maar dat kan ook echte bekering brengen.
Je afhankelijk weten van Gods goedheid is een zegen.
De Heere Jezus vraagt ons:
Neem uw kruis op en volg mij.
Je ziet tegenwoordig steeds meer mensen die hun eigen leven willen leiden.
Die niet in afhankelijkheid van God leven, maar leven zo als hén het goeddunkt.
Ze geloven wel in God en Jezus, maar niet als de Borg voor hun zonden en bestuurder van hun leven.
Maar wanneer er in hún leven iets niet gaat zoals ze willen moet God maar even helpen zodat ze daarna weer verder met hun leven
kunnen gaan.
Daarom spreekt het liedje van E&R mij altijd zo aan
Maar Jezus heeft een plan met jou
Vertrouw op Hem, Hij weet het
Hij zal je laten groeien
Hij is het die je draagt
Hij zal je altijd helpen
Te doen wat Hij je vraagt
Hij is machtig
Re: Column – De kredietcrisis
Geplaatst: 25 sep 2008, 09:41
Je anti-Amerikanisme begint vervelend te worden, Refo. Net alsof hebzucht en onverantwoordelijkheid specifiek Amerikaanse gewoonten zijn.refo schreef:...blaatverhaal...
Re: Column – De kredietcrisis
Geplaatst: 25 sep 2008, 09:47
Het wordt steeds interessanter, ja.
Natuurlijk zijn hebzucht en onverantwoordelijkheid niet specifiek Amerikaans. Wat wel specifiek voor ze is dat ze een biljoen of meer zoek maken.
Natuurlijk zijn hebzucht en onverantwoordelijkheid niet specifiek Amerikaans. Wat wel specifiek voor ze is dat ze een biljoen of meer zoek maken.
Re: Column – De kredietcrisis
Geplaatst: 25 sep 2008, 09:52
Ik weet niet goed wat ik hiervan denken moet. Stel dat een orkaan New York en omgeving getroffen had. Zouden we dan een bidstond ook bizar vinden? Ik denk het niet. Maar voor individuele bankiers en handelaren moeten de kredietcrisis zoiets zijn. Ineens stort het hele bouwwerk waar je op vertrouwde in elkaar. En niemand die er iets aan kan doen. De houding van "'t zijn toch allemaal een stelletje onverantwoordelijke boeven die nu hun trekken thuis krijgen" is me veel te makkelijk. De meesten hebben waarschijnlijk geprobeerd om eerlijk hun werk te doen. Dat de omgeving waarin ze dat deden in hoge illusionair was, dat is achteraf makkelijk te zien.Gian schreef:Heel bizar!
Ariene schreef:Refdag schreef:Bidstond door predikanten op Wall Street
22-09-2008 12:49 | Redactie economie
NEW YORK - Predikanten van verschillende kerken in en om New York hebben vorige week vanwege de financiële crisis op Wall Street bidstonden belegd. Dit meldt het magazine Christianity Today.
De bijeenkomsten begonnen vorige week maandag. Verschillende bankiers vroegen aan de predikanten van hun kerk om met hen te bidden. Later in de week werden bidstonden gehouden bij financiële instellingen als Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs en Morgan Stanley.
Dominee Mac Pier van de New York Leadership bad met de bankiers. „Ik hoop dat God hen wil steunen.” Volgens Pier waren de mensen radeloos. „Ik heb nog nooit volwassen mannen zo horen huilen. De crisis was ongrijpbaar omdat het zo snel ging.”
Veel kerken in en om New York rapporteren teruglopende inkomsten vanwege de financiële problemen in de Verenigde Staten. Wilson Goode, voormalig burgemeester van Philadelphia, zegt in Christianity Today dat er „op lange termijn minder geld beschikbaar is voor religieuze instellingen en sociale programma’s.”
Met andere woorden: waarom mag je wel bidden als je getroffen wordt door iets 'natuurlijks' (orkaan, droogte, overstroming...) en niet wanneer je getroffen wordt door iets dat mensen veroorzaakt hebben?
Ten tweede: Ik lees niet wat de inhoud van de bidstonden was. Waar baden ze om? Dat de beurs maar weer snel omhoog mocht gaan? Of wat er ook erkenning van hebzucht en onverantwoordelijkheid? En het gebed dat God de crisis zou gebruiken om mensen van hun vertrouwen in het geld af te brengen? 'Bidstond' zegt niet zoveel; het gaat om de inhoud ervan.
Re: Column – De kredietcrisis
Geplaatst: 25 sep 2008, 10:00
Wat maakt dat uit? De Amerikaanse beurs is nu eenmaal de grootste ter wereld, dus het is logisch dat ze daar de grootste getallen halen. Als het goed gaat, 'creeert' Wall Street ook biljoenen alsof het niets is. Absolute getallen zeggen niets: je moet naar percentages kijken.refo schreef:Het wordt steeds interessanter, ja.
Natuurlijk zijn hebzucht en onverantwoordelijkheid niet specifiek Amerikaans. Wat wel specifiek voor ze is dat ze een biljoen of meer zoek maken.
Jij redeneert nu op dezelfde manier als Amerikanen die zeggen dat Amerika het beste sportland ter wereld is omdat het (tot de laatste editie) altijd de meeste medailles haalt op de Olympische Spelen.
Re: Column – De kredietcrisis
Geplaatst: 25 sep 2008, 11:26
Van een Amerikaan gehoord: na 9-11 zijn er twee predikanten geweest die in landelijke kranten iets geschreven hebben over de nationale zonden en het oordeel Gods daarover. Het leek op een begin van een bekering. Twee weken later, na bij president Bush op het matje geroepen te zijn, hebben beide predikanten gerectificeerd.